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Tech Forum : front strut bar

- BMW E21 Community
   - Tech Forum
      - front strut bar
redmist   Posted Tuesday, Jan 11th 6:08pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 486
   
NY USA
357i , 325i e30 turbo
Since mine tuned into a pretzel in the accident, I'm in the market for a new one.
Question is what is the best design and why?

asterixx   Posted Tuesday, Jan 11th 6:53pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 38

Riga, Latvia
316 e21
I would say - the classic 'Hartge' tho expensive, but with style!

velocewest   Posted Tuesday, Jan 11th 7:32pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 416
   
Oregon USA
e9, e12x2, no E21?
I think there's a fundamental shortcoming with most front bars -- hinges. while they will keep the tops of the struts at an equal distance, they do nothing to overcome torquing of the front structure.

I think the ideal bar would be a rigid triangle, mounted to the tops of the strut towers and the firewall.

Tony

asterixx   Posted Tuesday, Jan 11th 9:13pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 39

Riga, Latvia
316 e21
I guess that is nothing impossible to make up a front, in some way, a 'sturt bar' that connects two towers and the firewall...
The only problem would be - where to screw it to the firewall? I guess, and i might be wrong, there is no place to screw it to...
So if that problem is solved i guess that kind of a 'sturt bar' is makeable!

JJG323   Posted Tuesday, Jan 11th 9:24pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 428
   
Reading MA USA
1979 BMW 323i
Who sells the Hartge one?
I have seen some on ebay from time to time.

asterixx   Posted Tuesday, Jan 11th 9:50pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 40

Riga, Latvia
316 e21
It's Walloth and Nesh!
http://www.wallothnesch.com/e/frameoffer.htm

Jason_323i   Posted Tuesday, Jan 11th 11:27pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 186
   
UK, Scotland
323i 2.7 tripple webber track car. Maserati Biturbo
Hi pete

I can get multi point weld in roll cage kits off the shelf now that pick up the front turrets, $750-1000.00

Better than any strut brace

Jason

JJG323   Posted Wednesday, Jan 12th 12:46am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 429
   
Reading MA USA
1979 BMW 323i
Jason.

With the exchange rate and tax, plus shipping tis going to be a lot for us.

I am using the ALPINA lower brace, the BMP strut braces and I am adding a half cage.

http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=60870&Category_Code=AP870

Race Roll Bar (shown with optional Shoulder Harness) - 320 77-83

Quantity in Basket: none
Code: 60870
Price: $332.95

**************************************************
Full-width roll bar hoop with two rear support braces, a diagonal cross brace and head restraint make up this roll bar.

Designed for Solo, Autocross and high-speed Time Trials
Meets SCCA and most race organization rules
Made from 1.75" x .120 DOM mild steel tubing. 2.00" x .120 ERW is used when car weighs over 3500 pounds. You must specify tubing type when ordering
4-Point mounting with welded diagonal cross brace
Grade 5 mounting hardware and backup plates included
Available Options:

Removable (bolt-in) Cross Brace - allows easier access to the back seat area if the car is a dual-purpose street and race vehicle. If the Shoulder Harness Bar option is selected along with the Cross Brace, it will also be removable.
Shoulder Harness Bar - horizontal tube for harness mounting, extends the full width of the roll bar

jesse   Posted Wednesday, Jan 12th 12:57am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 300
   
SF, USA
Dinan 1978 333i, honda insight, audi S4
hey joe have you got a url for
that alpina lower brace?
i'm not sure what you're referring to.

thanks

KenDanielson   Posted Wednesday, Jan 12th 1:39am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Junior Member
Post nr. 19

Petaluma CA
'82 320is, '78 320i
Top End Performance does not use the "hinge" set up, I dislike that arrangement also. Even with the bolts torqued very tight I always suspect there might be some movement when I'm slamming corners.

ken

Greg320i   Posted Wednesday, Jan 12th 2:20am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 58
   
Maryland, USA
Baxter: 1983 320i
How much benifit will I see from a strut brace with stock suspension?

KenDanielson   Posted Wednesday, Jan 12th 3:20am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Junior Member
Post nr. 20

Petaluma CA
'82 320is, '78 320i
The car feels noticably "tighter" durning hard cornering.

ken

Max   Posted Wednesday, Jan 12th 4:14am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 139
   
OC, CA, USA
85 635CSi euro, 89 325iA
Stock suspension + bar = waste of money. Unless the body is totally rusted.
Beware of Hartge strut braces automark sells, these are crappy quality and nothing else but replicas.
tuningzubehor sells non hinged ones IIRC and the price is right too.

Max

JJG323   Posted Wednesday, Jan 12th 5:18am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 431
   
Reading MA USA
1979 BMW 323i
Jess,

I am refering to the alpina B6 replica group buy we had a while ago.

I would like to see a picture of your ground control strut bearings and front stress bar.
How do they work without the rubber bearing in them?

Max: I have the BMP front and rear ones on my car, and my 86 jetta has the nuespeed one. They work fine, and tie everything together.
I feel a noticable difference on potholes and handling with them.

Both cars have bilstein sports shocks and HR Race springs on Jetta, Racing Dynamics lowering springs on the 323.

Here is the alpina bar:



I don't have one of under my car but you get the point. Its going to be on there very soon.



later.
J


aussie323i   Posted Wednesday, Jan 12th 5:29am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 274

australia
1979 323i
With stock suspension and strut brace I had noticably sharper turn in..... I'd say this is the best 'cheap' suspension mod you can do on the e21...... sorry Max I totally disagree that the strutbrace is a waste of time on stock suspension

asterixx   Posted Wednesday, Jan 12th 2:42pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 41

Riga, Latvia
316 e21
J,
The Alpina one? Does it have some rubber in bolting places?
Or not?
If not - then it is possible to fabricate it at home? D.I.Y.!!!

ichiwan2   Posted Wednesday, Jan 12th 3:55pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 62
   
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
BMW320/6(e21)
velocewest wrote:
I think there\'s a fundamental shortcoming with most front bars -- hinges. while they will keep the tops of the struts at an equal distance, they do nothing to overcome torquing of the front structure.

I think the ideal bar would be a rigid triangle, mounted to the tops of the strut towers and the firewall.

Tony


Is it possible for a car to be too stiff? Wouldn't it strain the body parts, especially at the joints which could then lead to cracking? Just wondering. Opinions?

JJG323   Posted Wednesday, Jan 12th 5:39pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 434
   
Reading MA USA
1979 BMW 323i
http://www.angelfire.com/de3/bimmertoyz/alpina.html

This Alpina bar we had a group buy organized by us and with Tony aka Velocewest's help. Its sold sold by Dave Lumbra ar 2002 Restorations in Oregon. His email address is oh2fly@2002restorations.com

later, J


asterixx   Posted Wednesday, Jan 12th 6:06pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 42

Riga, Latvia
316 e21
I can see here everything i wanted and i guess i'm gonna (D.I.Y.) that...
Thanks,
Peace!

Max   Posted Wednesday, Jan 12th 8:13pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 141
   
OC, CA, USA
85 635CSi euro, 89 325iA
Asterixx, you should be able to get homemade one much cheaper. I don't know if Rumbula still exists but when I was there it was not a problem to have brace made or buy it at the flee market.
IMO the best design is steel construction with adjustment in the middle, no hinges.

Max
PS Again- if the brace makes a difference on a stock suspension then your car has body flex it should not have.BTDT

g323   Posted Thursday, Apr 26th 8:52am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 130
   
California
323i 1982
What difference in handling did you guys feel by installing the lower alpina replica bar?

Phasma   Posted Thursday, Apr 26th 1:54pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 105
   
Latvia, EU
E21 323i "Phantom"
Max wrote:
I don't know if Rumbula still exists but when I was there it was not a problem to have brace made or buy it at the flee market.


Max, impressive, You were at Rumbula? Which year was that?

KenDanielson   Posted Friday, Apr 27th 2:37am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Junior Member
Post nr. 192

Petaluma CA
'82 320is, '78 320i
g323, I'm going to make a few-I can do one for you if you like. BTW, there's a few of us bay area e21 guys getting together near Vallejo this Sunday, you are welcome to attend if you can make it. Here's a link with the info.

http://www.bmw320i.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=50875&an=0&page=0#Post50875

ken

g323   Posted Friday, Apr 27th 3:11am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 131
   
California
323i 1982
Hey Ken,
man i would love to be there, i have to go out east this weekend to visit my granddad though. I would really appreciate it if you could make me one if your going to make a bunch, defiantly, let me know how i could repay you and such. Also, what time are you off work this Friday, i might drive by and see what projects your working on if it works out. I tried to see your site online yesterday but i couldnt find the link, post the URL would you?

best
g323

KenDanielson   Posted Friday, Apr 27th 4:22am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Junior Member
Post nr. 192

Petaluma CA
'82 320is, '78 320i
My site is gone, waiting for new server space. The guy that let me use space on his server needed it to update his business site. I have all the pages saved and will be updating things as I go but don't currently have a place to publish it.

I've got some business travel coming up so it may be a few weeks before I can get some built- I'll let you know when one is ready for you. I'll get home around 4pm if I stop at the steel supply house...

ken


melloh   Posted Friday, Apr 27th 5:15am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 545
   
California, USA (San Jose)
1980 320is, 1991 318is
Hey, Ken. I'm in the bay area also. So, if ever there's another event/meeting in the area, I'd love to go (can't this weekend, though)!

BarryA   Posted Wednesday, May 2nd 9:48pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 186

Sacramento CA
81 320
Anyone looking for either front or rear one-piece E21 strut bars might want to look at Mason Engineering's web site (link below) - they manufacture bars in both aluminum and powdercoated steel, and sell them individually or in pairs. Fronts are $155 in steel, $185 in aluminum, rears are $125 and $145.

I've got a rear bar ordered (already have a 3 piece front Hartge bar installed) - will report back on fit and finish once it's recieved and installed.
http://www.masonengineering.net/Subpages/E21.htm

g323   Posted Friday, Jan 18th 11:31pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 227
   
California
323i 1982
http://www.angelfire.com/de3/bimmertoyz/alpina.html

g323   Posted Sunday, Jan 20th 6:35pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 229
   
California
323i 1982
http://www.answers.com/topic/lower-tie-bar

AlaskaBimmer   Posted Monday, Jan 21st 11:32am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 22
   
Anchorage, Alaska
1981 323 Baur, 1978 320i, 1979 320i,
I have the underside frame rail brace (the fred one) it was hard to tell how big a difference it made alone, since I also installed ground control coilovers at the same time, but over all the difference was huge. I would like to get a strut tower brace as well , but I'm not sure if they are different for the M10 vs. the M20...someday I'll pick one up.


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