Tech Forum : Famous E21 shake....

MayanArch

Posted Tuesday, Jan 18th 2:43am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 65

Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978

What can one do about the famous E21 shake that seems to happen around 70 to 80 (depending on your car)?

Are there any write ups on how to reduce or fix this shake?

ichiwan2

Posted Tuesday, Jan 18th 3:43am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 67

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
BMW320/6(e21)

On-wheel balancing can reduce, but won't eliminate the e21 shake, or shimmy.

aussie323i

Posted Tuesday, Jan 18th 4:13am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 281

australia
1979 323i

Urethene swaybar bushes in the front control arms have been known to fix this also!

BruceH

Posted Tuesday, Jan 18th 4:50am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 338

Atlanta, GA USA
81 323 Baur, 85 745

Bav auto or BMP has the old Boysten anti-shimmy kit. The kit plus perfectly balanced round tires on true wheels will minimize the vibe.

Bruce

bmw_m_320i

Posted Tuesday, Jan 18th 5:24am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 144

Helena, Montana
none right now :(

I wonder if michelin's new Tweels would work best since theres now sidewall to get out of round

kpeters

Posted Tuesday, Jan 18th 8:30am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 239

San Jose, Costa Rica
1981 320/6 Kastanienrot-Metallic 5spd

Hey i've got that shaking! What causes it? I thought I had a deformed axle because my tires are ok. How come this is a common problem?

Konrad.

ichiwan2

Posted Tuesday, Jan 18th 9:22am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 70

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
BMW320/6(e21)

Design idiosyncracy.

kpeters

Posted Tuesday, Jan 18th 10:13am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 240

San Jose, Costa Rica
1981 320/6 Kastanienrot-Metallic 5spd

Are we talking KPH or MPH?

ichiwan2

Posted Tuesday, Jan 18th 11:23am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 71

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
BMW320/6(e21)

Mine in kph. So I drive faster, hee! hee!

MayanArch

Posted Tuesday, Jan 18th 4:40pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 67

Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978

Supposedly, BMW fired the engineering team that was responsible for this flaw. The E21 is famous for this shake and shimmy.

kpeters

Posted Tuesday, Jan 18th 6:42pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 241

San Jose, Costa Rica
1981 320/6 Kastanienrot-Metallic 5spd

Ok that kinda turns me down a lot! And well at least im talking KPH.So i should just drive fast regardless of the shaking?

Marquis_Rex

Posted Saturday, Jan 22nd 11:21am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 181

UK
BMW 323i 2.7-as featured in Total BMW Nov 2002,Porsche 911/993TT

I've never come across this in my car, but heard so much about it.
I wonder if it happens on RHD cars as well. Is it perculiar to non-UK cars?
Anyone in the UK or Australia come across the same shimmy?

BruceH

Posted Saturday, Jan 22nd 3:15pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 342

Atlanta, GA USA
81 323 Baur, 85 745

All markets had it. When I bought my 81 new in 1981 the dealer replaced the tires twice under warranty to try and keep me happy.

Bruce

Greg323i

Posted Saturday, Jan 22nd 5:15pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 80

Melbourne, Australia
1982 Hennaröt 323i

Marquis_Rex wrote:

I\'ve never come across this in my car, but heard so much about it.
I wonder if it happens on RHD cars as well. Is it perculiar to non-UK cars?
Anyone in the UK or Australia come across the same shimmy?

I've heard that it's more prevalent in 4 cylinder cars. Perhaps the additional weight of the 6 surpresses this somewhat. Either way, I don't have the dreaded shimmy and I've never felt it. My old Capri had the worst shimmy I've ever felt in a car. I wanted to weld the rack to the crossmember!!

ichiwan2

Posted Saturday, Jan 22nd 5:42pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 73

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
BMW320/6(e21)

Marquis_Rex wrote:

Mine is a RHD model and has the shimmy at between 70-80 km/h

ichiwan2

Posted Saturday, Jan 22nd 5:44pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 74

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
BMW320/6(e21)

Greg323i wrote:

Marquis_Rex wrote:

I\\\'ve never come across this in my car, but heard so much about it.
I wonder if it happens on RHD cars as well. Is it perculiar to non-UK cars?
Anyone in the UK or Australia come across the same shimmy?

I\'ve heard that it\'s more prevalent in 4 cylinder cars. Perhaps the additional weight of the 6 surpresses this somewhat. Either way, I don\'t have the dreaded shimmy and I\'ve never felt it. My old Capri had the worst shimmy I\'ve ever felt in a car. I wanted to weld the rack to the crossmember!!

Mine is a 320/6 and it has the dreaded and hated shimmy

kpeters

Posted Saturday, Jan 22nd 6:36pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 252

San Jose, Costa Rica
1981 320/6 Kastanienrot-Metallic 5spd

Ok this pisses me off I already changed the tires twice and was about to replace the axles! That shaking is really bothering it goes far from just vibration.

But i suppose there is no problem then? Shall I just hit the gas and pay no attention to the rattling?

Konrad.

EricDeeJay

Posted Sunday, Jan 23rd 1:32am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 226

LA, CA
82 320i

Things that cause shimmy to look at are:

Control Arms
Toe rod ends
Sway bushings
Upper strut bearings
Rack bushings

The other piece is wheels. Kpeters, I see you have stock wheels. That shouldn't be an issue if they are balanced properly and the wheel itself is true.

aussie323i

Posted Sunday, Jan 23rd 1:34am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 284

australia
1979 323i

Hi Marquis/ everyone- I've owned two e21's- a 320i 4 and my current 323i 6. The 320i never shimmied at all and was a 1977 model- this had the early type front control arms which don't have the big rubber swaybar bushing like the later car- the swaybar was steel to steel through the control arm, with two rubber washers which fit between the big locating washers and the control arm. One thing about this car was that it suffered excessive kick back through the steering wheel on rough- ie. non-sealed roads.

Now the later cars like my 323i have the big rubber bushes locating the control arm which obviously is not as accurate as steel on steel, and I've driven this car on the same roads and it does not get the steering kickback like the 320 did therefore I suspect this improvement was done to reduce steering kickack and improve NVH- but it also seems to have induced the dreaded shimmy.... wierdly my shimmy seems to move around- it used to happen around 80km/h but now happens at more like 100-110 km/h.

I've just purchased all new front end components for my car and a new set of shockers so hopefuly this will fix the shimmy- hopefully be able to get to this in the next few weeks so I'll keep you all posted!

I'm fixing it all OEM- no urethene bushes or anything so I'll let you know how I go.

Cheers

Greg320i

Posted Sunday, Jan 23rd 6:32am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 65

Maryland, USA
Baxter: 1983 320i

My 320i had the shimmy... sometimes. Always in a very small mph range, usually 55-57, something like that. The occasional hard bump in the road would make it come or go. Well, last month I hit a curb and bent a control arm. Now the shimmy is much more pronounced, and it's moved to the 60-75mph range, which is much more of a PITA.

Max

Posted Sunday, Jan 23rd 8:37am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 147

OC, CA, USA
85 635CSi euro, 89 325iA

I owned 2 e21's. None of them had any shimmy because the suspension was like new and no any freeplay in tie rods or ball joints. I think it's about the same as with bigger BMW's ( even today) when bushings got worn this shimmy at ~55Mph (90km/h) shows up. I think this shimmy is nothing than resonance in worn components because of road imperfection(s).
Bavauto "anti shimmy "kit or whatever they call it is not a real solution as far as I know, it just changes the speed when shimmy occurs ( higher).

Max

bmw_m_320i

Posted Sunday, Jan 23rd 11:38am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 145

Helena, Montana
none right now :(

yeah it happens to all BMW's

5,6 and 7 series get the high speed shake from worn out upper control bushings and ball joints.

e21's are just more sensitive due to the design flaw of the sway bar/control arm bushing

I think the solution to this would be pressing a spherical bearing in the control arm in place of the bushings. This should also give a more sensitive suspension, as well as greater lateral stiffness due to the bearing. The only drawback, is its more noisy, since it wouldnt absorb vibrations as well.

Jason_323i

Posted Sunday, Jan 23rd 2:21pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 215

UK, Scotland
323i 2.7 tripple webber track car. Maserati Biturbo

HI

The BMP kit is just the big rubber washer the later cars come with less than a $1.00 from your dealer. The simmy is more due to the suspension than the wheel.

If you strip the suspension down you can flex the roll car to track control arm mounts in you hand, not good. So swap these for poly bushes, and at the same time, as they are cheap swap the roll bar to chassis mounts.

On a car with manual steering the mounting rubber bushes wear espicially if you have an oil leak, and as these are covered by a sheet of metal you do not notice they are worn, again you can replace these with poly bushes.

The track control arm due to its design can move front to back, so a new arm will also reduce the movement.

Jason

BruceH

Posted Sunday, Jan 23rd 3:27pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 345

Atlanta, GA USA
81 323 Baur, 85 745

Jason,

They also had the vibration when brand new. BMW called it "road feel" LOL.

Bruce

kpeters

Posted Sunday, Jan 23rd 6:33pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 255

San Jose, Costa Rica
1981 320/6 Kastanienrot-Metallic 5spd

HAHHAHA "ROADFEEL"! Now that's what I call advertising.

Ben

Posted Monday, Jan 24th 2:11am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 49

Eureka, California
1982 320i, 1981 323i

While doing some suspension work, I decided to give the BavAuto "anti-shimmy" kit a try. It seems to have worked pretty well. The shimmy is basically gone and what little remains might be something else since the car is kind of rough. But I've talked to several other people who said that all it did for them was raise the speed at which it occurs.

Marquis_Rex

Posted Saturday, Jan 7th 3:15am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 404

UK
BMW 323i 2.7-as featured in Total BMW Nov 2002,Porsche 911/993TT

Ok, this occured to me, while on the German auto bahn for the first time- in my RHD car in a LHD country! It was REALLY scary on the Autobahn while trying to V max the car- racing a E46 328i.
When I braked to slow things down a bit it shook even more violently!
It shook through the steering. I already have a 25mm front anti roll bar and urethane bushes....
Looks like I'll have to invest in that E30 front end sooner rather than later!

kpeters

Posted Sunday, Jan 8th 8:18pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 671

San Jose, Costa Rica
1981 320/6 Kastanienrot-Metallic 5spd

But the shimy is 100% removable with original parts. I've been on Euro E21's post 1980 at high speed and no shimmy at all. Mine had an awfull shimmy that corrected itself with wheel balancing, now it's just a small vibration since I have a deformed tire and the rims are a bit beated up too.

I changed all tie rods and all bushings in the front bar.

JJG323

Posted Sunday, Jan 8th 9:18pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 1075

Reading MA USA
1979 BMW 323i

e21 Parts used to make uranthane bushings for the e21 older style control arms. However since he has had a string of crappy control arms** These are New, Fred has stoped doing this.

Questions: Who sells a quality Febi control arm, and urthane bushing for the early style control arm cars.

Thanks
J

kpeters

Posted Sunday, Jan 8th 9:28pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 672

San Jose, Costa Rica
1981 320/6 Kastanienrot-Metallic 5spd

So looks like this problem is more common on Pre-Facelift E21's.

Jason_323i

Posted Monday, Jan 9th 1:01am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 331

UK, Scotland
323i 2.7 tripple webber track car. Maserati Biturbo

Hi Joe

try here

http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=&products_id=5090

Jason

BarryA

Posted Tuesday, Jan 10th 9:48pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 121

Sacramento CA
81 320

There's an additional factor that I don't think any other posts touched on - steering rack bushings.

My 82 US spec 320 had a terrible case of "the shakes" last year - prior to replacing the contol arms, upper strut bearings and installing a BavAuto "Anti-Shimmy" kit, I replaced the rack mount bushings with BavAuto urethane units and got rid of at least 80% of the problem (replacing the control arms and strut bushings and installing the anti-shimmy kit took care of the rest....)

The rack bushings in my car were one step short of goo when removed - oil soaked and very, very squishy.

Greg323i

Posted Wednesday, Jan 11th 4:58am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 199

Melbourne, Australia
1982 Hennaröt 323i

kpeters wrote:

So looks like this problem is more common on Pre-Facelift E21's.

It's my understanding that "the shake" is why BMW redesigned their control arms, hence the difference between pre- and post-'79 control arms.

kpeters

Posted Wednesday, Jan 11th 7:08pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 673

San Jose, Costa Rica
1981 320/6 Kastanienrot-Metallic 5spd

Interesting

eezibleed

Posted Thursday, Jan 12th 6:05am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Junior Member
Post nr. 1

Florida, USA
1981 323i

I've owned a 1981 323i for 20 years. It had the shimmy at 45 mph. Ten years ago I installed the Bavauto anti shimmy kit, the large washers, and never had the shimmy problem again.

landspeed85

Posted Wednesday, Feb 8th 6:18am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Junior Member
Post nr. 3

Las Vegas, NV, USA
1980 320i, 1987 535is

like Barry said, I had the bad shimmy until I replaced the rack bushings with bmp urethane ones which completely solved the problem for me. even if the suspension is worn to the point of vibration, the rack bushings will either stop it or allow it to continue through the chassis.

g323

Posted Saturday, Dec 30th 9:51pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 67

California
323i 1982

like barry and landspeed just said, the steering rack bushings are the kicker.

I just replaced with oem and i can still feel it deep down, but it hardly bothers me now. However when re-assembling it was getting dark and didnt have time to get the last metal tube back in there so i had to just up in the bolt. Its really a b---tch to get the rack back in in......(i think maybe i have the bushing at an angle, i have to wait a few days to go back under, neck is still sore)(old bushing were like goo)

HIGHLY RECOMENDED though that this be the first thing you hit when trying to fix the shimmy, steering rack bushings, the OEM worked good for me

pjs323i

Posted Sunday, Dec 31st 7:25am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 51

Canberra, Australia
'81 323i

mine did it bad, especially down hill, and arounD 80km/h. Its a RHD '81 323i. Now, my trusty mechanic replaced the steering rack ends and tie rods, gave her a wheel allignment and balance and the sterring is much more precise and guess what...NO SHIMMY! :p

Oldmanwillie

Posted Monday, Jan 22nd 6:29am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 13

South Australia
1982 323i motorsport

hahah well thats a relief i thought i had something wrong with my wheel alignment or something in the suspention but i guess im ok then.

g323

Posted Tuesday, Apr 10th 3:18am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 119

California
323i 1982

"The BMP kit is just the big rubber washer the later cars come with less than a $1.00 from your dealer. The simmy is more due to the suspension than the wheel." - Jason

Whats the part number on these washers, does anyone have the Bav Auto, bavauto, BMP anti shimmy kit instructions still, would some kind soul be willing to upload them

?

thanks!
Grant

ArnZ

Posted Tuesday, Apr 10th 3:43am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 88

Qld, Australia
BMW 323i

i have a little bit of shimmy when i drive my e21 around 80km/h

i live with it and if anyone askes i just say its "character" its wat makes my car unique lol

Madhatter

Posted Tuesday, Apr 10th 1:16pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 162

Australia - QLD
E21, E24, E30

had a few e21's, seen a few e21's. 99.999999999967201853% have been caused by rack bush failure.

I even had a customer come in and complain about our service and proficiency because his car still had a shake in it even after we did a wheel alignment and balanced his wheels twice.

He had his rack out and never replaced the rack bushes, i took one look at them and they were well shot, bits of rubber coming off. I told him about the rack bushes and that it wasnt anything we have done, havent heard from him since

Probably the most overlooked bushes in the entire car, ive seen dampeners replaced but rack bushes left untouched, bet most of yours are still original 20+ year old ones

Greg323i

Posted Tuesday, Apr 10th 5:32pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 320

Melbourne, Australia
1982 Hennaröt 323i

I'm pretty sure mine were the original when I replaced them with urethane last month. My turn-in improved so much that I almost ran over the curb on a corner I normally take spiritedly. Probably the best improvement I've made at the front... So far.

realcrouton

Posted Tuesday, Apr 10th 9:12pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 117

Washington, USA
1977 320i, 1981 323i, 1991 325ic, 2000 328i

Here's a kit on Ebay right now.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-E21-Anti-Shimmy-Kit-1977-83-320i-323i-320-6_W0QQitemZ230114428463QQihZ013QQcategoryZ42609QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

pjs323i

Posted Thursday, Apr 12th 2:20am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 51

Canberra, Australia
'81 323i

Madhatter wrote:

Probably the most overlooked bushes in the entire car, ive seen dampeners replaced but rack bushes left untouched, bet most of yours are still original 20+ year old ones

i'm moving to Brisbane at the end of the year...what mechanic do you work for and do you mind if i take mine there?

when i replaced my Right hand rack it stopped it completely for a while, but it was a secondhand part and after 6 months its back again and worse! and i've also been told that the front lower bushes are completely stuffed and need to be replaced. How much am i looking at to fix?? is it worth a DIY?? i only want new parts...and new urethane bushes and on both sides not just the right hand side this time...

Greg323i

Posted Thursday, Apr 12th 6:53am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 321

Melbourne, Australia
1982 Hennaröt 323i

When I got new control arms they didn't have rubber on one side for the roll bar. The big washers didn't have anything to contact, which I think is a big problem. I made something up that seems to help. I'm pretty sure that E21 parts make a urethane one that would be much better. One of these days, when I can afford it, I will buy some of those for my car.

g323

Posted Thursday, Apr 12th 10:42am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 121

California
323i 1982

i dont have rubber on either side of my sway bar, what rubbers are these? where can i buy them?

aussie323i

Posted Thursday, Apr 12th 12:49pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 566

australia
1979 323i

Greg323i wrote:

My 323i has a gap between the front face of the control arm and the 'big ass washer' on the swaybar. It appears that this is how they are supposed to be.... now- when I renewed my front control arms, I made up rubber washers to fit into this space (basically, my own anti-shimmy kit) and the result was a lack of shimmy, BUT my strut top bearings wore out super quickly! I know in other posts people with urethene swaybar bushes that fill this gap have complained of aftermarket strut tops lasting less than a year.... just a theory- if you fill the gap between the washer and the control arm, does it somehow change the loading on the front strut as the suspension travels... causing more load to transfer to the strut top?? If you look at the bush, standard, it would flex from towards the rear of the control arm, but if you fill the space in the front of the bush, the pivot point of the swaybar would move forward?? Any thoughts?

Madhatter

Posted Friday, Apr 13th 1:21pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 164

Australia - QLD
E21, E24, E30

pjs323i wrote:

i'm moving to Brisbane at the end of the year...what mechanic do you work for and do you mind if i take mine there?

Dont work in brisbane, but send me a pm, might be able to organise something on a weekend (im open saturdays till lunch time, so can probably do stuff after then if required).

Lower bushes suck. This isnt because its hard to replace them, its just that nobody has a listing for them anymore. I tried a few major suspension suppliers and didnt have any luck, ended up putting a pair of original rubber ones back into the car.

Lower control arm bushes are about $60 a side to purchase (which sucks), yeah, its not too hard diy, just can be a little difficult getting the sway bar back into correct position.

All the other bushes (cept rear subframe) in the car are available quite cheaply. In poly urethane, probably looking at about $120 in parts for the bushes to do the front and rear.

g323

Posted Monday, Apr 23rd 2:41am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 126

California
323i 1982

Here's a pic of the Bavarian Auto Anti Shimmy Kit diagram and Instructions