| RJ |
Posted
Wednesday, Sep 10th 7:17pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 8
The Netherlands
335i E21, 325i E30 |
I'd like to get any information I can about a 5-lug (5x120) conversion for an e21 3-series I can. I think I've read somewhere that this is possible using E12 5-series parts? I'm in Europe, so finding the parts should be relatively easy. Any websites or info from you guys would be greatly appreciated!!!
I'm interested in the 5-lug conversion because I've installed a euro M30 3.5 in my 320/6 and would like the bigger brakes I can use. Oh yeah, and I've got this gorgeous set of polished BBS RS wheels sitting here that are 5-lug....
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| RDAvena |
Posted
Wednesday, Sep 10th 8:17pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Staff
Post nr. 129
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
1981 323i, 1988 545is, 1997 528i |
Front hubs you can change to the front 5 bolt hubs from an e12. Not specifically the 535 as I have seen 528is with rear discs. The hubs fit the spindles on the e21. You have to check the bearings though as pre 80 models used different bearings that the post 80 models did. Caliper placement has been rumored not to change but then all the other guys that have done the mod have machined their own front hubs. Wheel offsets may change but then no one has actually provided details.
On the rear subframe you will need to change out with one from an e28. Like they did on this pic.
The idea behind using this type of subframe is all you have to do is shorten the front member down to the e21 size and weld the subframe mounting ears to this after you are done. I am not sure if any changes were made to the arms. From the pic they do not look like they have been changed. The end result bolts onto the stock subframe bushings. The difference between doing it this way rather than using an e30 subframe is that the springs are housed on the shocks on the e28 and are seperate on the e30. The e30 has a shock mounting point and behind it is the spring in its perch. The spring Top retainers have the same bolt pattern as the e21 and will bolt to the e21 rear towers. Not sure if you can mix and match these but the rear e28 springs are the same diameter as the e21 ones so... Plus you will bring over the bigger housing that accomodates the e30 e28 diff.
Of course this is after measuring the centerline twice, making sure your geometry is correct, and cutting once. The rear calipers will plumb into the existing lines and work fine with the booster that is on the car already. If you did not have rear discs you have them now. The other addition is the rear mount for the e28 diff. You will have to make space for it and strengthen the floor of the trunk(boot) and bolt the e28 subframe mount there.
If you have a larger motor the added weight will be minimal as the motor will make up for it. Adding the diff will benefit the use of hard launches. But on a 4 cylinder or a M60/20 equipped car it will make the car heavy and will only be for looks. The "benefit" could be the added weight on the rear end making the car less tail happy but then who would really want to get rid of this?
A cheap "bastardized mod" could be integrating(read: heavy cutting and welding) the rear trailing arms from the same e28 and checking to see if the rear shocks mount up this way. Kind of easy to check the measurements and angles. Or if you are at a junkyard you can remove one trailing arm from an e28 and from an e21 and "swap" the e28 arm into the e21. Or at least measure the deficiencies, where you have to weld, how much farther apart the arm is, how much longer the arm is ect. At least giving you more ideas or more proof into the reality of modifying your BMW.
I make no claim in having done this and do not accept responsibility if you dick your car up.
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| RJ |
Posted
Thursday, Sep 11th 10:35pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 10
The Netherlands
335i E21, 325i E30 |
Okay, thanks for all the info. I'll make good use of it. |
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| zwcl65 |
Posted
Tuesday, Feb 24th 7:34am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1
california, usa
too many |
I'm also thinking about this conversion and have a question for anyone who may know which E-21 struts are needed for the E-12 hub to fit on. Will the US 320i struts work or do I need to find some euro 323i struts? If I need the 323i struts does anyone have some for sale? Thanks, Ted |
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| M42powered |
Posted
Tuesday, Feb 24th 7:53am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Staff
Post nr. 279
Arizona, USA
1981 BMW 320i |
so there would be a market for CNC'd billet hubs made to fit E21 spindles and 323i rear trailing arms? I'm working on some using Pro-E and Solid Workds. |
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| JJG323 |
Posted
Tuesday, Feb 24th 2:07pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 10
Reading MA USA
1979 BMW 323i |
Yeah, there is a market. Because 5 lug conversion opens up the world of 5 bolt pattern 15s for the e21.
If u get this conversion nailed down, then e21 owners would be interested in it.
If you build it they will come.
Joe G
79 323i |
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| RDAvena |
Posted
Tuesday, Feb 24th 6:29pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Staff
Post nr. 406
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
1981 323i, 1988 545is, 1997 528i |
not me. I kinda like my four bolt Alpinas. |
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| velocewest |
Posted
Tuesday, Feb 24th 6:36pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 86
Oregon USA
e9, e12x2, no E21? |
Ray, that is an excellent write-up. Can we preserve this in some kind of tech archive? I MUST get my e12 parts car disassembled and start fitting goodies to the 323i...
Tony |
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| redmist |
Posted
Tuesday, Feb 24th 7:34pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 164
NY USA
357i , 325i e30 turbo |
Ok so I've done some major modifications but they have resulted in major improvements. What is really to be gained performance wise (traction/handling) by this improvement?
Sounds like a lot of work and expense for an extra wheel hole.
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| RDAvena |
Posted
Tuesday, Feb 24th 8:30pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Staff
Post nr. 407
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
1981 323i, 1988 545is, 1997 528i |
it is a lot of work and like you said "all for an extra wheel hole..."
The only other side benefit I can think of is the use of the larger diff(8 bolt sidecover). But since e24/28/30 friction disks are NLA I am not sure if even that would be an excuse.
That is the only thing that changes, the extra hole. And maybe the rear geometry but is it for the good or the bad of the car? Shocks and springs are readily available and the Leda suspension might be the maximum for our cars. I can't see the e28 ones being any better. Rear brakes, same as the e30 ones, fit with a little shaving. Fitting the rear diff you will have to cut some extra holes in the trunk floor for the diff mount.
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| nsbone |
Posted
Tuesday, Feb 24th 8:36pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 81
KL, Malaysia
e21 323/6 316, e34 520i, e32 730i |
Ray,
The photo is from jeremy's website right? He is registered with Tricord's registry.
http://e21.tricord.cjb.net/registry/index.php?view=16
He has both front and rear converted to 5 lugs. But his website is not in english. Perhaps someone can translate...
http://www.remyvos.nl/jeremy/jeremy6.htm
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| JJG323 |
Posted
Wednesday, Feb 25th 4:02am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 11
Reading MA USA
1979 BMW 323i |
Ray may be right..I too am happy with my BBS rims.
I have two sets. Marhle and a gold set, the Marhle are stagered.
The 5 lug conversion is a lot of work, but I know there are other guys that may be interested in it.
I am upgrading and overhauling my 2.8 liter stroker into my restored 323 in a few months.
Thanks  
Joe G
79 BMW 323i |
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| jeremy-e21-m3 |
Posted
Wednesday, Feb 25th 3:25pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Junior Member
Post nr. 1
Nederland
320/6 M3 |
hello
the front 5-lug a friend of mine has made it.
it is not a part from a differend model but special made.
the back axel i take from a e24 6-serie.
the front member i had too made smaller.
the arm must be change too.
i can tell more because mine english sucks.. 
i want too give more information but don't now how.. 
greeting jeremy |
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| redmist |
Posted
Wednesday, Feb 25th 4:05pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 168
NY USA
357i , 325i e30 turbo |
Is welding up the holes on the existing hubs (can some be utilized?)and redrilling/tapping a simpler solution? |
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| jeremy-e21-m3 |
Posted
Wednesday, Feb 25th 4:36pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Junior Member
Post nr. 2
Nederland
320/6 M3 |
i do not now if they are big enough for welding and drilling too 5-hubs..
you must fitt the wheel..
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| redmist |
Posted
Wednesday, Feb 25th 6:32pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 169
NY USA
357i , 325i e30 turbo |
Yeah you might be right. The 4 lugs are a 100mm bolt circle, the fives are 120mm. This would mean an extra 10mm toward the edge of the hub. It would be close. You could always just weld up and bridge the area where the holes are.
Then of course dynamically balance each hub. |
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| velocewest |
Posted
Wednesday, Feb 25th 8:47pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 88
Oregon USA
e9, e12x2, no E21? |
Hallo Jeremy,
Schrijf in het Nederlands. Wij kunnen online vertalen en dicht genoeg aan uw ware betekenis
krijgen.
Tot ziens,
Tony |
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| bmw_m_320i |
Posted
Thursday, Feb 26th 12:29am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1
Helena, Montana
none right now :( |
Does anyone know if the e12 or e28 front subframe can be mounted to an e21? I'm swapping a M30 into my 320i, and I think that the subframe will block the oil pan. Also will the E12 4piston brakes bolt up to the front? |
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| nsbone |
Posted
Thursday, Feb 26th 1:18pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 85
KL, Malaysia
e21 323/6 316, e34 520i, e32 730i |
Velocewest,
There u go, i need some of his knowledge to really rebuild an e21 body. Can u be the translator?
rahman |
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| Jason_323i |
Posted
Thursday, Feb 26th 3:36pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 39
UK, Scotland
323i 2.7 tripple webber track car. Maserati Biturbo |
Hi
I was going to say that you would have to narrow the rear axle to fit an e24/28 into the e21. The only advantage of a complete swap would to increase the rear track, doing the front to match would be tricky (apart from wheels with a big offset) as to increase the track you would need longer track control arms and tie rods, (possible with a sub frame swap) but the top mounts of the struts would remain fixed to you would have massive camber. Or you could go the whole hog and weld in new turrets (these are available and a common mod on mk1/11 escort rally cars) to move the strut mount outward.
On the five-lug thing if you use the e12 hubs on the front would it be easier to machine 5 lug hubs to accept an e21 size bearing rather tan drill out a 4 lug hub.
Jason
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| bmw_m_320i |
Posted
Friday, Feb 27th 4:22am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 10
Helena, Montana
none right now :( |
will 5 lug front hubs off of anything fit? I was poking around on Bavarian Autosport and found that the E12 and e21 323i both take the same front bearings, So does that mean that the front hubs will interchange? And what Rotors do I use? |
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| zwcl65 |
Posted
Monday, Mar 1st 7:22am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 3
california, usa
too many |
I've been digging in the ETK and found out that the 77 320i bearings are also the same. Has anyone out there actually tried fitting the E-12 hubs on? I guess I need to find some 77 320i struts now. |
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| bmw_m_320i |
Posted
Monday, Mar 1st 10:45am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 19
Helena, Montana
none right now :( |
the 323i andthe pre 77's have the same strut right? |
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| zwcl65 |
Posted
Monday, Mar 1st 6:13pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 5
california, usa
too many |
The part numbers show different for that aspect. I believe the difference between the two is diameter for the insert. The ETK doesn't show diameters like the old microfilms do, I'll crossreference that later. |
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| zwcl65 |
Posted
Tuesday, Mar 2nd 5:29am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 7
california, usa
too many |
Alright I've done some more searching. Pre 9/79 320i and 320/6 struts are the same P/N's
31-31-1-114-614 and 615. Those take the same bearings as an E-12 and 323i. |
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| bmw_m_320i |
Posted
Tuesday, Mar 2nd 6:35am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 20
Helena, Montana
none right now :( |
now what rotors would work with the Volvo calipers, and the e12 hubs? |
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| RDAvena |
Posted
Tuesday, Mar 2nd 7:17am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Staff
Post nr. 415
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
1981 323i, 1988 545is, 1997 528i |
no magic recipie there. Since this is more or less unproven ground I doubt there will be an answer. So we will go with what is known.
E12 hubs work on either 77 320i or 323i spindles E12 rotors work with e12 hubs. e12 calipers bolt on to e12 struts but do they bolt on to e21 struts? e12 calipers are four pots but not as big as the volvo calipers. Volvo calipers bolt on to e21 struts with 323i vented rotors and e21 hubs. The guys that have done five lug conversions have all milled their own hubs...
Hmm, this seems to need a little more detective work on your part. I mean it is great to have everyone supply the answers but the extent of the pooled knowledge has reached its limit. Can't bake a cake without breaking a few eggs just as you can not get the answers to your questions without spending some cash for them. I can only give the facts on the modifications and these I have not tested since I do not require the need for an extra bolt hole.
Hate to be curt but I doubt very much that the "other" boards would have given you even this info much less answer any questions if you did not belong to their exclusive circle. They did not have any of these answers and honestly even they have learned a lot from this thread. Good luck. |
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| bmw_m_320i |
Posted
Tuesday, Mar 2nd 8:44am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 21
Helena, Montana
none right now :( |
My mechanic has an Extensive BMW Junkyard in the back. I'm going to do some investigating on what works. I'll get back with everyone with any new information
Another thing, will e12 struts work on e21's? |
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