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Tech Forum : Please don`t shoot me!! Stroker again

- BMW E21 Community
   - Tech Forum
      - Please don`t shoot me!! Stroker again
Gabi_323i   Posted Friday, Feb 10th 10:55am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 100
   
Bucharest, Romania
11/80 323i 2.7i Motronic 1.3
So in the past few days i was all over the internet and actually i am more confused then i was before
i have a 2.7 from 10/86 525e e28 england model, with the steering wheel on the right
i read that tgey are 5 diferent eta engines
what head do i nead for this engine? the head from it is 200 style head, some people say the 731 head is better, some says the 885 head is better
so please help before searching the net I thought that they are just 2 models of 2.7, eta who has the 200 style head and works very well with the 731 head w/ 323i cam and the super eta who has the 885 head witch performs well with the 885 325i '90 head who has larger sferical combustion chambers.

Thanks a lot for your input.
\\Gabi.

EDIT : can i keep my existing motronic 1.0 for the stroker config? some people say that i can use the early 325i ECU on the eta wire harnes
it's kinda hard to find motronic 1.3 in here

JJG323   Posted Friday, Feb 10th 4:52pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 1124
   
Reading MA USA
1979 BMW 323i
Ah. Here we go again.


885 "I" Best> Good 731 > ok 200 "eta" "e21 323i" series head.

jrcook320 wrote:

E21 323i - M20B23 - 2.3L m20 (or m60) with K-jet (or CIS) fuel injection
E30 325i and is - M20B25 - 2.5L with L-jet and later motronic EFI, 731 or 885 head (depending on year)
E30 325e and es - M20B27 - 2.7L eta (efficiency) with L-jet EFI, different head with smaller ports, similar to 323i head but weaker valve springs and smaller cam with fewer bearings (for less friction). High Torque low rever.

__________________

imaradiostar   Posted Friday, Feb 10th 7:15pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 651
   
Nashville, TN
81 323i, 82 525i, 85 524td, 90 535i
my opinion:

1) use a low compression (9:1) eta bottom end and deck the block .030" (brings squish down and compression up a bit- to about 9.6:1) and use a 731 casting head

2) use a euro high compression (11:1?) eta bottom end and a 731 casting head

3) use a super-eta bottom end and an 885 casting head

In any of the above cases use an "i" car cam and valve springs.

Any fuel injection you can get your hands on is fine as long as the intake matches the cylinder head and isn't a low-revving eta ecu.

jamie

Gabi_323i   Posted Friday, Feb 10th 7:19pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 101
   
Bucharest, Romania
11/80 323i 2.7i Motronic 1.3
ok. so how can i find at what kind of eta i`m looking at?
on the mtal plate under the vin said "27 6E B"

Madhatter   Posted Friday, Feb 10th 7:32pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 8

Australia - QLD
E21, E24, E30
pistons are usefull to tell what motor you have, so is the year stamped into the block.

If you keep the existing eta pistons the 885 (325i) head is a waste of time. Better of sticking with the smaller chamber, 731 or 200 head from the 323i's. That way you will keep the stock compression ratio of your bottom end.

The 731 has a slight advantage over the E21 323i's 200 head in that it has larger inlet ports. Thats about the only real difference.

The 200 head from the eta is useless, cut it up and use it for paperweights

You are right though, there are 5 (or was it 6?) different eta engines in the 5 series, various compression ratios and injection systems are used. The 3 series only really has 2.

All the eta's but the super eta motors you will find in some late model 3 and 5 series cars have the 200 head (the super eta runs an 885 head).

The super eta works well with the 885 head because it has pistons designed to work with the chamber shape of the 885 casting. This is the same reason the 731 head works with the rest of the eta range, it is the same chamber design as the stock eta head.

No, the eta's system is useless, you are rev limited by the ecu and the fuel map just does not support the stroker motor very well (it simply wasnt designed to). You can upgrade to the 325i unit by using the 325i's ecu and splicing your loom or swapping to a complete 325i item, otherwise the only alternative is to use the LE-jetronic system from the E30 323i.

Gabi_323i   Posted Friday, Feb 10th 7:42pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 102
   
Bucharest, Romania
11/80 323i 2.7i Motronic 1.3
Thanks a lot!
525e 1983-1985 276EA 2693(2693) 92 125
525e 1985-1987 276KA 2693(2674) 90 122
525e 1986-1987 276EA 2693(2674) 95 129
525e 1981-1984 276EB 2693(2674) 95 129

these are 4 versions of the eta

tomorow i`l search for any production year from the block
the VIN : WBADB620201865555

i was thinking that i can swap a 325i motronic 1.0/1.1 ecu and use the existing harness

Bump for a real stroker topic

Gabi_323i   Posted Friday, Feb 10th 8:02pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 103
   
Bucharest, Romania
11/80 323i 2.7i Motronic 1.3
Gabi_323i wrote:
ok. so how can i find at what kind of eta i`m looking at?
on the mtal plate under the vin said "27 6E B"



525e 1981-1984 276EB 2693(2674) 95 129

how could that happend?

the car is 10/86 .... in the etk it says that 276EB was used from 09/85 and the 276KA was used until 12/86, the car had 2 middle silencer, i don`t know if the first one was the cat ....

http://e21.tricord.be/members/Gabi_323i/capture13.JPG

if on the metal plate bolted on the engine bay there was mentioned 276EB i think thats it, right? the 129HP version


EDIT : the exhaust looked exactly like this

So it's the 276EB version

RDAvena   Posted Saturday, Feb 11th 9:57am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Staff
Post nr. 1585
   
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
1981 323i, 1988 545is, 1997 528i
Gabi, show us the piston tops and this will tell you the compression ratio.

Personal opinion: go with the 731 head as it will match the 525e pistons better. With the 885 you will have to use the 2.5l pistons in order to match the 885 head. Anything else will not take advantage of the squish/flow/compression properties of the 2.5l piston. Regardless of what the know-it-all shit-talking-fuckers say. Let me know if you need an early 325i motronic , just pay for the shipping to you.

Madhatter   Posted Sunday, Feb 12th 9:07am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 9

Australia - QLD
E21, E24, E30
you cant use the same loom as the plugs/wiring are different.

Gabi_323i   Posted Sunday, Feb 12th 11:28pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 104
   
Bucharest, Romania
11/80 323i 2.7i Motronic 1.3
ok, thanks
i live in Romania, near ukraine, hungary
where are you from? any ideea of the shipping cost? i never shipped, received anything outside the country thats why i ask
thanks a lot RDAvena, nice gesture

Madhatter   Posted Monday, Feb 13th 3:52am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 10

Australia - QLD
E21, E24, E30
you will want the trigger wheel too and possibly the distributor, so dont forget that

Gabi_323i   Posted Monday, Feb 20th 9:50am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 105
   
Bucharest, Romania
11/80 323i 2.7i Motronic 1.3
news
i got a harness, trigger wheel, cilinder identificator, pulse sensor from e34 525i M20 motronic 1.3, i`m so happy

Madhatter   Posted Monday, Feb 20th 3:50pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 12

Australia - QLD
E21, E24, E30
as long as they are being handed out... ill take 2 thanks

Gabi_323i   Posted Wednesday, Mar 8th 11:14am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 108
   
Bucharest, Romania
11/80 323i 2.7i Motronic 1.3
ok, so my car is running, at last
stock m20b27 276EB engine with motronic 1.3 from early e34 2.5i M20, 04/79 323i tranny, 11/80 323i Auto diff (open i think) and the ecu is from 88 325e E30 USA 0 261 200 154 and runs great i have a 731 complete head in my trunk just wainting to be on the engine i have 2 323i E21 engines, should i use E21 camshaft? the 731 head i think is out of a E30 320i i will use the matching 731 manifold with .... what injectors? 2.5i? the ecu will be #173 unit i think

thanks!

\\Gabi.

nsbone   Posted Thursday, Mar 9th 3:01am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 347
   
KL, Malaysia
e21 323/6 316, e34 520i, e32 730i
Hey Great!

Got some pics with motronics distributor and manifold, and location of the ECU? Do u change the radiator?

regards,

Gabi_323i   Posted Thursday, Mar 9th 11:27am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 110
   
Bucharest, Romania
11/80 323i 2.7i Motronic 1.3
i didnt`t change the radiator


Gabi_323i   Posted Thursday, Jan 18th 10:26pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 129
   
Bucharest, Romania
11/80 323i 2.7i Motronic 1.3
ok, so last night my timming belt slipped and one valve broke and made a big hole in one piston

i bought 6 2.5 pistons, will they fit ok with the 2.7 crank and rods? i have the 2.5 head too use with them

redmist   Posted Friday, Jan 19th 1:55am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 1022
   
NY USA
357i , 325i e30 turbo
super eta block, "I" head, turbo. Cheap, very fast fun.
Just ceramic coat the tops of the pistons.

TJ   Posted Friday, Jan 19th 6:06am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 17

NY, USA
82 528e2i 84 320i/4 80 320i
2.5 pistons can't be used with the 2.7 crank because they will either hit the head (with 135mm 'i' rods) or have low compression (with 130mm 'e' rods).

Of course if you add a turbo then low compression might not be a problem

Gabi_323i   Posted Friday, Jan 19th 6:15pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 130
   
Bucharest, Romania
11/80 323i 2.7i Motronic 1.3
i want to go turbo, how low will the comp be?

TJ   Posted Saturday, Jan 20th 6:01am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 18

NY, USA
82 528e2i 84 320i/4 80 320i
How low? depends on what the comp ratio is of the 2.5 pistons you bought.
If they are from 8.8:1 M20B25 then the answer is:
1+81mm/((75mm/(8.8-1))-3mm+5mm)
=8.0


Gabi_323i   Posted Saturday, Jan 20th 11:03am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 131
   
Bucharest, Romania
11/80 323i 2.7i Motronic 1.3
yes they are 8.8:1 pistons, i'm very confused some people say that the cr will be 7.4:1, some 7.9:1, 8.3:1, and you 8.0:1

anyway, what do you think should i go with this setup?

Phasma   Posted Saturday, Jan 20th 1:08pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 77
   
Latvia, EU
E21 323i "Phantom"
A bit offtopic:

How block clearance should be made to adapt longer throw crank. The problem is about conrods, they bumps into lower part of cylinder.

Any ideas, pictures?

Jason_323i   Posted Saturday, Jan 20th 1:16pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 430
   
UK, Scotland
323i 2.7 tripple webber track car. Maserati Biturbo
The piston & rods are okay you deck the block (skim appox 2mm) of the top to get the compression ratio back.

Rods hiting the block is od what crank are you using



Jason

Phasma   Posted Saturday, Jan 20th 6:18pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 79
   
Latvia, EU
E21 323i "Phantom"
going to use 88mm crank from M57B30 turbodiesel. Cutting the conrod shoulders will shorten the screws and threads, because threads are on the end of the screw its risky. MetricMechanic warns, that using long throw cranks will require machining the block for clearance issues, but it didn't say what exactly needs to be modified (they uses even longer 89,6mm cranks)

Jason_323i   Posted Saturday, Jan 20th 6:35pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 431
   
UK, Scotland
323i 2.7 tripple webber track car. Maserati Biturbo
Hi

I have only seen this on a few ford pinto stokers were the just grind a notch either side at the bottom of the cyliners to clear the conrods. but thes notches are below the lowest point of the piston skirts

The problem might be that some cranks from the m 50 series of engins have larger bearings so if it the head of the bolts touching rather than the conrod sides then you may need an crank with smaller bearings.

Jason

Phasma   Posted Saturday, Jan 20th 6:42pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 80
   
Latvia, EU
E21 323i "Phantom"
not the bolt head, but bolt end with some conrod metal should be milled off to pass that critical point in the block. I think, that 8mm of thread should be dangerous...your thoughts plz

Jason_323i wrote:
Hi

I have only seen this on a few ford pinto stokers were the just grind a notch either side at the bottom of the cyliners to clear the conrods. but thes notches are below the lowest point of the piston skirts

The problem might be that some cranks from the m 50 series of engins have larger bearings so if it the head of the bolts touching rather than the conrod sides then you may need an crank with smaller bearings.

Jason

Jason_323i   Posted Saturday, Jan 20th 7:36pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 432
   
UK, Scotland
323i 2.7 tripple webber track car. Maserati Biturbo
HI

I would relive the block and if possibe shorten the bolt but stil leave 2-3 mm showing

Jason

Gabi_323i   Posted Monday, Aug 20th 4:04pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 134
   
Bucharest, Romania
11/80 323i 2.7i Motronic 1.3
the motor is working again, 175km for now running in procedure recomandation?
the engine is a 2.7 block with 10:2 pistons and 2.5 head, e21 2.3 camshaft and 2.5 manifold, injectors, ecu, afm etc



godz320   Posted Tuesday, Aug 21st 1:58pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Junior Member
Post nr. 4
   
Kazan, Russia
e21 323i mot. 1.0
e34 520i mot. 3.1
i've radiator from e30 325i 86' (new)







Gabi_323i   Posted Tuesday, Aug 21st 2:31pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 135
   
Bucharest, Romania
11/80 323i 2.7i Motronic 1.3
i have the same radiator, but i need the top hose, is very dificult to source one even new

nsbone   Posted Wednesday, Aug 22nd 4:58am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 462
   
KL, Malaysia
e21 323/6 316, e34 520i, e32 730i
The radiator from which model, because, e30 325 radiator is very wide compare to e21 radiator????

Gabi_323i   Posted Wednesday, Aug 22nd 11:25am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 136
   
Bucharest, Romania
11/80 323i 2.7i Motronic 1.3
this is a 325i radiator, a post facelift i think, 85-87
RealOEM

nsbone   Posted Wednesday, Aug 22nd 4:30pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 463
   
KL, Malaysia
e21 323/6 316, e34 520i, e32 730i
interesting! do you have to cut anything to mount? it seems like direct bolt on mounting?

Gabi_323i   Posted Thursday, Aug 23rd 3:00am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 137
   
Bucharest, Romania
11/80 323i 2.7i Motronic 1.3
you need to cut the top part of the radiator mounting bracket to clear the hood and maybe bend or cut a little metal for the top hose to clear the chassis
picture

nsbone   Posted Friday, Aug 24th 3:04am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 464
   
KL, Malaysia
e21 323/6 316, e34 520i, e32 730i
alright. I suppose this radiator gives better cooling than standard e21?

Gabi_323i   Posted Monday, Oct 29th 10:54am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 139
   
Bucharest, Romania
11/80 323i 2.7i Motronic 1.3
no, i don't think so it's the same size radiator but with the moved top hose to clear the distribuitor ! managed to source a top hose




Phasma   Posted Friday, Feb 22nd 2:52pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 112
   
Latvia, EU
E21 323i "Phantom"
Since my race season is over, I pulled my engine out and disassembled everything - conrods are just fine. BTW, engine produced 244hp at crank naturaly aspirated.

Jason_323i wrote:
HI

I would relive the block and if possibe shorten the bolt but stil leave 2-3 mm showing

Jason

JJG323   Posted Saturday, Feb 23rd 5:50am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 1346
   
Reading MA USA
1979 BMW 323i
Phasma wrote:
Since my race season is over, I pulled my engine out and disassembled everything - conrods are just fine. BTW, engine produced 244hp at crank naturaly aspirated.

Jason_323i wrote:
HI

I would relive the block and if possibe shorten the bolt but stil leave 2-3 mm showing

Jason


Details of your engine build again please? I must have spaced it. I am using custom 85mm Weisco Pistons, S50 86mm crank, *S50 rods, ported and polished 885 head, plus 1 ferrara valves, and custom rockers with a 288 cam and 19lb injectors. I have not put the engine together yet but the 2.9 m20 will be in my 323i this summer.

Phasma   Posted Tuesday, Mar 4th 10:36pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 113
   
Latvia, EU
E21 323i "Phantom"
M57D30 crank, 130mm max lightened rods, rebuilt and lightened 2.5i pistons (12:1), lightened schrick 288 cam, lightened valves, 885 ported&polished head, 11 lbs flywheel, oil squirter taped 2.5 block, lightened water pump, lightened itermediate shaft, gogleg box, 3.91LSD.

Phasma   Posted Wednesday, Mar 5th 10:15pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 114
   
Latvia, EU
E21 323i "Phantom"
BTW, anybody has ready-to-use piston design for 89.6mm crank + 135mm rods? JE pistons require tons of measurements and parameters to build appropriate piston set.

JJG323   Posted Thursday, Mar 6th 4:54am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 1347
   
Reading MA USA
1979 BMW 323i
Phasma wrote:
BTW, anybody has ready-to-use piston design for 89.6mm crank + 135mm rods? JE pistons require tons of measurements and parameters to build appropriate piston set.


What is the diameter of the M57D30 crank, and what is the displacement of the bottom end?

If you call or email Metric Mechanic he can quote you the pistons. But I am pretty sure this 89.6 S52 crank requires custom rods. Thats why i used the S50 86 mm crank, and s50 rods.

Phasma   Posted Friday, Dec 19th 10:42pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member
Post nr. 116
   
Latvia, EU
E21 323i "Phantom"
M57D30 uses all the same mounting diameters as M20/M50, just the crank nose is shorter and has 4 screw holes instead of 1 big - needs additional fabrication. Bottom end results in 2996.2 cc. It made 244Hp on wheels and 306nm!


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