General Forum : OFF TOPIC: This immigration thing is out of hand..

- BMW E21 Community    - General Forum       - OFF TOPIC: This immigration thing is out of hand..

MayanArch	Posted Friday, Jun 2nd 4:57am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 975     Florida, USA Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978	This immigration thing is out of hand, and not at all what the country needs right now. As far as I am concearned, I left that pissy little country that I was born in to come to the USA. I voted against the bill that the Cuban community tried to pass in Miami to make Spanish the first language. I thought that was the most idiotic idea I have ever heard of. All you need to do is cross the border between Tijuana and San Diego by foot some time.......look at that big fence and see how the Third World crashes up against it like waves crashing up against rocks on the beach. On one side you have utter caos..........on the other you have vast empty desert and all the freedom you could/should have. MANIFEST DESTINY. That is right. Take a look at what mayhem us Hispanics have created with the natural riches found in our land.......and then take a look at what was created here in the United States. Mexicans dont need to look far. All they need to do is stand on that bridge and take in the sight that I described. ITs the same fuckin desert on both sides of that fence. Look at what the Mexicans did with it. Look at what the USA did with it. No comparisson. Sorry for the rant, but I thought that the Hispanics that agree with me needed to be heard. I dont want a Spanish version of the National Anthem any more than I want this government to be run like the government of the banana republic I was born in.
BruceH	Posted Friday, Jun 2nd 6:03am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 909     Atlanta, GA USA 81 323 Baur, 85 745	Wow and well said. Surprising position for a Hispanic.
MayanArch	Posted Friday, Jun 2nd 4:35pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 976     Florida, USA Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978	I know. That is why I posted. I know of a lot of American born or gringonized Hispanics (like me) that feel this way. Some are even extreme refusing to teach their kids Spanish. I wouldnt go that far, but the point is that the news makes it sound like we all want to be singing the National Anthem with maracas shaking all about. NOT AT ALL. The typical racial pyromaniacs should tred lightly. Hispanics have little patience for that type of self proclaimed leadership.
redmist	Posted Friday, Jun 2nd 5:55pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 828     NY USA 357i , 325i e30 turbo	We founded this country based on an open door policy, "give us your poor, your huddled masses..." I see no reason to pull back from this. My only concern is that they pay their fair share of taxes, health care etc once they are gainfully employed. I too think it is ridiculous to make any other language official other than english. I wouldn't even think of the government having the reponsibility of teaching me in english or having public signage and publications in english if I went to live in another country. If we have everything in spanish too then why don't we have it in chinese, french etc? A very slippery slope.
BruceH	Posted Friday, Jun 2nd 5:57pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 912     Atlanta, GA USA 81 323 Baur, 85 745	Pete, I have no problem with an open door policy as long as the immigrants are legal and pay their way. B
MayanArch	Posted Friday, Jun 2nd 6:21pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 977     Florida, USA Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978	Depends who you believe. Some studies say that illegals put more in through different taxes than they are able to take out. It really doesnt matter. If the law is wrong you change it. You dont allow people to just break the law. Furthermore the US has never had a fully open door policy. It has always been selective about who they let in. Just ask why there are so many Jewish Cubans (Jewbans). That boat got turned away twice by the US during the Holocaust. In the end, what it comes down to is who is here to add to and integrate with the culture.....and who is here to leach from it. Temporary worker.......ok.......come, work, leave. If you want to stay here, you had better make an effort to learn the language. The reason Hispanics are not a homogeneous voting block like the african americans is becauase they have very extreme views on politics. Most of us are immigrants due to the Cold War.........and it depens what side you were running from. This is a different issue, and should be handled differently. Hispanics are by nature Catholic conservatives....and the typical victimization politics will have a backlash for both sides of the spectrum if handled improperly. Furthermore, there is the whole national security thing. Lets just say that the whole Hispanic culture isnt big on empathizing with Muslims. Oh, and by the way.....signs in Miami have English, Spanish, and whatever it is that Hatians speak. It is annoying.
kpeters	Posted Friday, Jun 2nd 8:38pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 766     San Jose, Costa Rica 1981 320/6 Kastanienrot-Metallic 5spd	In my opinion immigrants in any part of the world are welcome as long as they do something for the country's well being and adapt to the society. And yes your are right about most hispanic ppl in the US, but a lot of US citizens won't judge you by where u come from, if not by your skin color! I guess when they see me they must think I come from some weird place in Oriental Europe so they dont bother me much at the airport . I can understand them....same thing happens here with Nicaraguans but most of them are thugs. I beleive USA and Costa Rica alike need this work force because the citizens dont want to plow the land, or gather crops anymore. Immigrants do all the dirty work no American or Costarican wants to do!
RDAvena	Posted Friday, Jun 2nd 8:50pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Staff Post nr. 1639     SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0 1981 323i, 1988 545is, 1997 528i	MayanArch wrote: I know of a lot of American born or gringonized Hispanics (like me) that feel this way. Some are even extreme refusing to teach their kids Spanish. As a first generation U.S. Citizen I can fully agree with the position against the current immigration legislation that is being lobbied in D.C. I did use the word lobbied because the majority of the citizenship of the U.S. is against the "amnesty" legislation that is being purchased by the special interest groups that infest Washington like rats at a corn mill. As far as my kids are concerned, I only speak Spanish in my home and this is so they will always remember where they came from. Those that refuse to teach their kids their native language(whatever it may be) are doing them a disservice. redmist wrote: We founded this country based on an open door policy, "give us your poor, your huddled masses..." I see no reason to pull back from this. Not that anyone is pulling back, but there are tens of thousands waiting in line legally and now we are going to give residency and citizenship to millions for breaking the law and cutting in to that same line? redmist wrote: My only concern is that they pay their fair share of taxes, health care etc once they are gainfully employed. MayanArch wrote: Depends who you believe. Some studies say that illegals put more in through different taxes than they are able to take out. They are already gainfully employed if they were not they would not be here. Plus in my interactions with the illegal hispanic community here in Colorado Springs and Denver I would be accurate in saying that 15% actually pays any kind of tax or has insurance on their persons or on their vehicles. This is from a group of 400 that I have spoken or interacted with. If this represents the 20 million or so that are illegally in this country the drain on city, state and federal resources is a lot higher. Not to mention the added expense for uninsured motorists insurance. They barely pay taxes. Back in 2001 I was working at a tax prep office and since I am bi-lingual I used to be assigned a lot of these "immigrant/guest worker" cases. On their W-2's 98% had 7 or more dependants listed. For the year they paid something like $100 to $145 worth of Federal Tax and about 15 in State tax. When I asked them for the Social Security numbers of all of these "dependants" they either tried to bribe me in order to make up some numbers, came back at a later date with Xnumber of purchased "social security cards", or left the office and did not file their taxes. This will not affect their chances of filing any kind of paperwork for whatever legislation Congress comes up with because they will be able to purchase any kind of required forged documentation just for the chance of becoming legal. And no fine that Congress imposes will matter either since these "migrants" have thousands saved in what they do not pay in taxes, insurance, ect. Congress had stated a $2000 fine for "breaking the law", many of the comments I have heard is "Is that all?". Many of these families send double that amount back home monthly. Why do you think Prez Vicente Fox has his own paid lobbyists in congress? This is his cash cow.
MayanArch	Posted Friday, Jun 2nd 9:19pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 978     Florida, USA Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978	The SINGLE GREATEST source of revenue for the entire country of El Salvador, and probably for all of Central America, is money being sent back by migrants in the US...........greater than coffee.....greater than any export. The whole business of sending money back is a HUGE business for the Western Union types, and their underground counterparts. It is HUGE. I have a slightly different experience than Ray. I used to run a paper factory with about 350 employees.......really, from all over the world...but mostly from Central America and South America. Many of them started as illegal, but got amnesty because of political reasons. Many of them were Nicaraguans escaping death squads. These guys did the whole bit. They paid all the employee taxes, insurance, ect.. These guys couldnt do a real factory job without having to go through worker's comp drug tests, and having to fill out all the appropriate forms. They were creative with their papers.......to say the least. Many men with female first names....for some reason. I had a guy named Maria running the 120" lathe and arc welder. Ray is right. $2k is NOTHING. They are accustomed to paying $5k or more to get shuttled across the border by some mafia types. The cheapest immigration lawyer in Miami charges about that much to get your paperwork started. The ONLY ones that have it easy are the Cubans. They are in as long as they can LITERALLY get one foot on dry land. That is exactly what the law says, and the video clips of Coast Guard patrols putting their steel toe boots in the face of someone swimming for their life is really heart breaking. I used to tell my Nicaraguan friends to get a nasty sun burn....get an inner tube........and float their asses into Miami Beach. Say some nasty stuff about Fidel....and you are in.
JJG323	Posted Saturday, Jun 3rd 4:12am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 1213     Reading MA USA 1979 BMW 323i	As first generation born here in Boston USA I have a similar story. My father, uncle, aunt and my Dad's mother and father left Italy after the devestation of mudslides which killed many of my cousins and wrecked havoc totally wiping on my grandfather's small business. This was a difficult move, comming over to this country and life was hard for my dad, he could not even speak english when he first got here. My grandfather had no education and worked in a shoe factory to support his family. Like some many other people of different nantionalities and stories, My Grandfather and Grandmother came to seek opportunity in this country. They came on "the boat" and past Ellis Island. It took years before they even had much in this country. Redmist wrote: We founded this country based on an open door policy, "give us your poor, your huddled masses..." Pete, yes I know, and thats what I love about this country. We have a big heart, and a history of allowing everyone here. So having told you about myself, I understand why people have come to America. I repect them in a way, as they are looking to better themselves. Our country is indeed a great country. It allows opportunity, and a chance for people to climb up a comfortable lifestyle by working for a company or starting a small business, or to invent something, or be a star in any number of sports. I am named after my grandfather - I have the same first and last name, but go by my Amercianized first name. My grandfather never really liked America, or learned english, and went back to Italy where he is buried. The climate was too cold for him in boston, and so was the culture. He always wished he kept his family in southern italy, in the small town where he lived on the Amalfi Drive of Italy. He was in many ways a simple, but beautiful and elegant man. I am planning on visting him - in the catecombs (space is limited and most cemetarys are full)-in a few months as I go back with my family to Italy. As for immigration, illegal tunnels, and the many illegal people that are now living here, I share with you all the same sentiments as have already been expressed. Areas of Mass like Fitchberg are totally becoming concentrations of illegals from Brazil. Not I am not saying that I don't like them. I am not saying that they are not deserving of America's warmth, generosity, or promise of a bright future. Its just that we are so Overwhelmed by the sheer number of Illegals here, we have to do something. Ex. Fitchberg MA is almost another country. And parts of Florida are the same way with other illegals from other countries - Columbia, Cuba, etc. RDAvena wrote: I would be accurate in saying that 15% actually pays any kind of tax or has insurance on their persons or on their vehicles. Ray's point about taxes is from what I have seen in this state indeed true. They really dont pay much. Many fall threw the cracks, and are not part of the system. On top of this, in dealing with even something as simple as a car, there is huge amounts of fraud in some areas of MA. This is true in parts of MA like Lawerence, which have the highest theft, and insurance fraud, and are almost legendary among insurance companies. So what to do? I think its gotten way out of hand, and reform if in can be implemented needs to be done.
MayanArch	Posted Saturday, Jun 3rd 3:45pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 979     Florida, USA Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978	I remember a bumper sticker when I first got to Miami: "The last one out please take the flag". I think it is called "white flight". Natives just keep moving north. Guys, this country is much more selective about immigration than what you think. Just ask a Hatian. Why are Hatians turned away, while Cubans are allowed in? The US tempers the flow of immigrants by closing and releasing the valves that they want. It isnt an even flow from all directions, and the approach is far from even handed. It has ALWAYS been this way..........and there was a time when Italians and Irish were seen as invaders too. The right to control the border is the right of any country. The fact that this country aspires to give opportunity where others wont......doesnt mean the US has waived that right. If controlling the borders means an inconvinience for Hispanics, Brazilians, and Middle Eastern Muslims..........well, so be it. It has ALWAYS been this way. AT NO POINT SHOULD THE US PUBLIC BE APPOLOGETIC ABOUT CONTROLLING ITS OWN DESTINY.
davethedog	Posted Monday, Jun 5th 1:56pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 103     Northants, England E21 320	I'm sorry but all you american's make me laugh. You have the richest country in the world, lods and lods of land and you still bitching. As far as I can see it's quite difficult to get into America and become a citizen. In the UK the govement let's any body in gives them a house, health care, schooling whilst us tax payers get nothing. There are always cases in the papers of eastern european or asian people coming of and getting in excess of £20K a year in benefits. There was recently a case where an asian man had come into the country with his three wives (which in its self is illegal for an englishman), The family was given three nice homes at an expense to the UK tax payers of over £100k a year. He did'nt work and nor did any of his wives. Tell me if that is right. I have always worked hard and have always paid taxes, I have never been out of work and have never claimed anything. But when my baby became ill the govement would'nt give us a penny to help. There are area's in the UK where you will not see a white man. For example in Southall in London they knocked down a church and built the largest mosque in the country. We have a program on the television called Crimewatch which does reconstructions and try's to help the police in solving crime. You can watch it every month and every crime and I mean every crime is carried out by eastern europeans, asians or some other ethnic minority. These crimes are normally against honest tax paying citizens and the police are too underfunded to do anything about it. I apologise if I offended anyone but I would gladly change the UK's postion for the American's anyday of the week.
BruceH	Posted Monday, Jun 5th 2:29pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 913     Atlanta, GA USA 81 323 Baur, 85 745	Dave, Some of your problems are the same as ours. Keep in mind that we have an 1800 mile(fact check anyone?) border with Mexico that is virtually unmonitored and wide open. Many hospitals in Southern California are on the verge of bankruptcy due to treating indigent illegals as our laws mandate that they must accept all patients. The first step is closing the border. The second step is a program that is equitable to those here and those who want to get here. This country was founded and built by immigrants, my parents included, who came here for a better life.
MayanArch	Posted Monday, Jun 5th 3:21pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 981     Florida, USA Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978	Dave, I am sorry, but the UK's problems are a direct consequence4 of Colonialism. I mean, you guys took over the entire world along with the French, Spanish, and Portuguese. You now have a bunch of people running around with British passports and they are legitimate "British Subjects". You took over their land, made them Brits, now.......well, now they want to be Brits. Yeah...yeah, yeah...........I know the bit about "American Imperialism", but the closest thing we have to a Colony is Puerto Rico. Geez, they dont even have to pay taxes. Puerto Ricans have one of the highest standards of living in the whole entire world. Remember the whole "taxation without representation" thing we had with you guys? The Puerto Ricans get "representation" in the Federal Government.....they just dont get the "taxation"!!! The Puerto Ricans voted on "independence" and it got shot down something like 98% to 2%. That tells you how "colonialized" they feel.
redmist	Posted Monday, Jun 5th 4:43pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 831     NY USA 357i , 325i e30 turbo	I mean this seriously... It is nice to see an intelligent debate. Says something about e21 owners as a group. My last comment on the subject. I would love to let everyone in who wants to as long as they play by the rules and pay their fair share. I think we all would. Reality is this will never happen. Penalize the employers severely who hire illegals and those that bring them in. Ray is right as usual, current illegals can't jump to the front of the line. I don't know what is the right/practical thing to do. One thing I would take a hard line on, no health care unless you are in this country legally, no social services, no support just free passage back to your country and forfeiture of any assets.
MayanArch	Posted Monday, Jun 5th 5:24pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 982     Florida, USA Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978	redmist wrote: One thing I would take a hard line on, no health care unless you are in this country legally, no social services, no support just free passage back to your country and forfeiture of any assets. This is the crux of the problem. What do you do with hospitals and doctors who took an oath to care for the sick....reguardless of status or wealth. The illegals arent getting free school. Its their legally american born children that are for the most part. It is a very difficult problem, and there are no real 100% solutions.
BruceH	Posted Monday, Jun 5th 5:47pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 914     Atlanta, GA USA 81 323 Baur, 85 745	I fully agree with Red's statements and I am sure that the vast majority of American's feel the same way. Unfortunately the immigration issue becomes a political tool for BOTH sides to use. Think of the newly registered voters who become enamored with the party that they perceive as the champion of their cause.
bmwwill	Posted Monday, Jun 5th 7:27pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Junior Member Post nr. 1 Nashville, TN '83 315/2.5i	let's look at another side of this issue- in Nashville our Asian community (I don't recall which nationality, but it was one in particular) has their own neighborhood and gang violence has become a big issue. Many feel this wouldn't be a problem if the population was more integrated like some of the neighborhoods you find in Northern suburbia- people of different background and skin color living together and shopping at the same grocery stores rather than their own local single ethnicity stores...and so on. Has this presented issues in any of your areas? jamie
imaradiostar	Posted Monday, Jun 5th 8:16pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 754     Nashville, TN 81 323i, 82 525i, 85 524td, 90 535i	hah...ooops, posted under the wrong screen name. jamie
BruceH	Posted Monday, Jun 5th 8:16pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 915     Atlanta, GA USA 81 323 Baur, 85 745	Jamie, You could say the same of Irish and Italians at the turn of the century. B
imaradiostar	Posted Monday, Jun 5th 8:26pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 756     Nashville, TN 81 323i, 82 525i, 85 524td, 90 535i	Bruce, I'm not a history buff but if I'm not mistaken it was an issue then as well- and ended in gang violence. I heard rumor that there is legislation on the table to do something about it- now that's bound to raise legal issues! I'm glad we have a free country but it's difficult because these questions span greater issues than just healthcare or taxes. There a number of statistics relating to the varied religious beliefs and ethical standards of different immigrant populations. For eample; one person's "honest buck" can be another person's "crap, I got screwed." Working at a repair shop we see a ton of it. While you'll see dishonest car salesmen/repairmen of any ethnicity I have to be honest in saying we see far more dishonest work coming from certain members of our local immigrant population than from people that have been here for several generations. I'm not intending to point out any one group but it's a commonly recognized situation among local businesses. I suppose our free-market economy should weed out the bad businessmen but it still seems to thrive around here- I guess there are enough people to take advantage of that aren't able to tell the difference between good and bad quality workmanship. jamie
BruceH	Posted Monday, Jun 5th 8:36pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 916     Atlanta, GA USA 81 323 Baur, 85 745	I wasn't disagreeing with you
MayanArch	Posted Monday, Jun 5th 10:45pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 983     Florida, USA Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978	To understand this you have to come to terms with the fact that a lot of these immigrants come from places where the "law of the jungle" is what kept them alive. The biggest excuse for institutionalized theft in El Salvador is that "if I dont take it....the next person will....so it might as well be me". Theft and crime is so acceptable that it is practically part of the culture. It is also no mistake that the bloodiest gangs come from the bloodiest parts of the world. Again, El Salvador is a good example here. The worst and most violent gang right now is from El Salvador. The Italians came in and did a bunch of stuff that would have been morally reprehensible even for criminals before them. THey had limits though. The Italians refused to introduce drugs into this country. Someone else came in and did it who just didnt see a problem in introducing such a cancer into their neighborhoods. Will some of this be weeded out by becoming Americanized..........YES, if the goal is to become Americanized.........and the US public stops being ashamed of demanding of such. Keep your ethnic awareness....sure, but lose all the bagage and learn the language......INTEGRATE!!! There IS something wrong with ethnic communities that just come here to pretend they are still part of their old culture, and maybe you cant force them to move on.......but the rest of the public sure as hell shouldnt be appologetic for leaving them behind. The US public is too appologetic about racial issues. Other countries are downright snotty about their culture, but somehow we are ashamed of imposing our cultural influence........EVEN WHEN IT IS INSIDE OUR OWN BORDERS!!!!!!!! Do you for a minute believe the French or the Spaniards are appologetic about imposing their cultural values?? Not for a friggin minute. To the contrary, they believe it to be superior.
RDAvena	Posted Monday, Jun 5th 11:19pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Staff Post nr. 1641     SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0 1981 323i, 1988 545is, 1997 528i	MayanArch wrote: THey had limits though. The Italians refused to introduce drugs into this country. Someone else came in and did it who just didnt see a problem in introducing such a cancer into their neighborhoods. Joey Zaza did.
BruceH	Posted Monday, Jun 5th 11:53pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 917     Atlanta, GA USA 81 323 Baur, 85 745	He sleeps with the fishes!
MayanArch	Posted Tuesday, Jun 6th 12:26am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 984     Florida, USA Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978	RDAvena wrote: MayanArch wrote: THey had limits though. The Italians refused to introduce drugs into this country. Someone else came in and did it who just didnt see a problem in introducing such a cancer into their neighborhoods. Joey Zaza did. The old timers......
velocewest	Posted Tuesday, Jun 6th 2:52am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 519     Oregon USA e9, e12x2, no E21?	Mayan, there are a bunch of preferential categories for immigration, so you're right -- it's not even close to a level playing field. Here's my take -- you have a law, but you fail to enforce it, it's hard to go back and act on the people who broke it. So, if you're in, you stay. Amnesty? Maybe, but moreso, reality. Another POV -- in Oregon, particularly rural and suburban western Oregon, the Hispanic population is large and growing. Here's an experience I have over and over -- I go to buy something at a retail store. Could be anything -- gas, a six pack, lumber, whatever. If the person serving me is anglo or black, they're usually under 30, not happy to be helpful, and their ability to speak English is of little benefit. If they are Hispanic or Arabic, they are helpful, friendly, and if they don't speak english (not a problem I encounter too often), they work doubly hard to make me happy. I know who I'd rather have around. Tony (PS: I didn't mention the Asians, but in Oregon, they're not workers, they're owners. Relatively few Asians work retail unless they own the business. And the south Asians (Indian and Pakistani) all work in high-tech. Different context.)
sunbeam***	Posted Tuesday, Jun 6th 9:04pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]
Member Post nr. 163     wirral UK 1982 323i	Thought i'd add my 2 cents... At the moment in the UK ...well England at least were going through the pre world cup flag flying, St Georges crosses everywhere! what really p*sses me off is that we are told this is offensive to ethnic minorities, even racist! What crap. Believe me im no racist WE ARE ALL EQUAL, but if you were born in England you ARE English! if you've moved to England from abroad you should be glad you were welcomed! Fly the flag for YOUR country! Sorry had to let off steam.

Thread Administration