Tech Forum : Green Valve??

Boost_me

Posted Monday, Mar 5th 1:45pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 126

Victoria, Australia
1981 BMW 323i

Ok my car is having some problem's.....It will start and idle for about 20-30seconds or so and then die....Somtimes it will start agai and somtimes it wont. If it does start again it will surely again. I got told to look at the internal fuel pump. I did that, got a new one in and the problem is still there. (yes the new one works..lol)
So I can't figure out where to go next, It really seem's to be a strange problem as there is fuel, air and spark, and if somthing was dead wouldn't the car just die and not start at all?? I am aware it may be a solinoid problem but I am unsure how and where to find these solinoid's. Fuses are all good, wiring seem's to be all good too, I dont know where else to look beside's this GREEN VALVE, If you know what it is and what it does, maybe where the piping connect's to or it's main function please help as I DONT think it supposed to be there.

http://e21.tricord.be/members/sunset323i/My%20Engine.JPG

Boost_me

Posted Tuesday, Mar 6th 7:30am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 127

Victoria, Australia
1981 BMW 323i

I really need help here so I'm going to Bump it.

pjs323i

Posted Tuesday, Mar 6th 1:30pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 51

Canberra, Australia
'81 323i

jeeze man, i dunno. i'd scrap it! it looks like a valve to control the additional air for the cold start valve??? they've used it to patch the hose at some point maybe???

I know that iregular idle is caused by a bad cold start valve but thats about it. this valve could be restricting air for the cold start??? check mine out:

myersport

Posted Tuesday, Mar 6th 3:12pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 184

east tennessee
'82 320iS. '91 327iC

I'm with Pj. It's difficult to tell without seeing the whole car, but it looks like someone has installed a valve to control throttle bypassair, essentially a manual fast idle valve. The original additional air slide valve under the intake may be stuck open, or bypassed/removed altogether. Either way, this valve DOES have an affect on cold idle, however it may not be the problem. Good place to start tho.
--Dennis

Boost_me

Posted Tuesday, Mar 6th 11:49pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 128

Victoria, Australia
1981 BMW 323i

Yeah PJS323i your same hose doesn't have a valve in it. I may have a look at mine and stick a different pipe in there then see if it changes anything. It's weird it that fixes it because I haven't touched the valve and it was running perfect 2 week's ago. But yeah I'll keep you all poseted on what happen's.I've been told to look at the WUR (Warm Up Regulator) but like I said it happen's at ALL temp level's not just cold. It happens weather it's cold or hot, or at idel or revving. Very weird situation.

pjs323i

Posted Wednesday, Mar 7th 12:21am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 51

Canberra, Australia
'81 323i

Boost_me wrote:

When warm up regulators stuff up; they stuff up at any temp at any engine speed. are you getting bad fuel consumption?

Boost_me

Posted Wednesday, Mar 7th 5:53am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 129

Victoria, Australia
1981 BMW 323i

Yeah it's not the best atm.....fuel consumption that is...

Madhatter

Posted Wednesday, Mar 7th 11:26am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 133

Australia - QLD
E21, E24, E30

it looks like someone has just spliced a fitting in to be used as a joiner. Have you taken the hose off to see if it actually opens and closes inside?

its only part of the crankcase vent system, that hose in particular will run down to the air box so it vents, its not a big deal and it wont cause it to stop.

pjs323i

Posted Wednesday, Mar 7th 2:08pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 51

Canberra, Australia
'81 323i

Madhatter wrote:

totally aggree

Boost_me

Posted Wednesday, Mar 7th 4:28pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 130

Victoria, Australia
1981 BMW 323i

So I got it started today for about all up 5 min's...And I turned the green valve......One way it made my car idle higher, the other way made it idle lower.......This gives my car a REAL throaty tone.....Icleaned up the area buy cutting about and inch off the old hoses to give a new fresh face and reconnected everything.........Got it started for about 2 min's and then the car COMPLETLY died......For A LONG time this time......a good half the day I would say........Then at around 9pm I went and tried to start it........it started....and then died very quickly and wouldn't start again......This car has me runnig around in circles......I really don't know what's going on....

jrcook320

Posted Wednesday, Mar 7th 7:52pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Junior Member
Post nr. 1

Van Wert, OH
'81 320i

The green valve really has nothing to do with this. Leave it open (higher idle) because thats how the stock fitting would have been.

Your car is likely stalling because you are running lean. This is could be cause by several things: vacuum leaks, a clogged, dirty or misadjusted WUR, or low system fuel pressure.

Check for vacuum leaks first by spray starting fluid (ether) at intake manifold gaskets, hoses, fittings, you name it. If your idle rises, you have found your leak.

You can try removing your WUR and cleaning it. This may help if it is a clog or buildup that is causing high control pressure (and thus lean mixture). pjs323i, a bad cold start injector does not cause irregular idle. The cold start injector only sprays for 8 seconds max, after that it's useless. Irregular idle is cause by incorrectly adjusted mixture, either due to vacuum leaks, dirty or bad WUR, or the AFM being out of adjustment.

To check system pressure (and control pressures), you will need to do a system pressure test using a fuel pressure gage. There was a recent thread here about how to do this. Low system pressure is generally caused by a clogged fuel filter or a weak fuel pump. If your filter hasn't been changed for a long time, do it.

pjs323i

Posted Thursday, Mar 8th 4:24am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 51

Canberra, Australia
'81 323i

jrcook320 wrote:

I had a loopy idle and bad fuel consuption issue and the cold start valve got replaced by my mechanic which i assume fixed the issue. I'm glad you proved me wrong, I want to know what he did to my car now...

Boost_me

Posted Thursday, Mar 8th 2:29pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 131

Victoria, Australia
1981 BMW 323i

Ok, So today I pulled apart the enegine bay ad got to my WUR, I pulled it out and Cleaned the whole thing, Inside-out and around where it mount's on the block....It took me the better part of 5-6 hour's.....I put it all back together and my car start fine....But I still have the same problem....I think it's either the Accumulator or External fuel pump now, I WILL change the fuel filter regardless as I have one sitting here......I just need a little info on these component's.....I believe if the fuel filter is gone then the car WILL NOT start AT ALL....Well my car DOES start and idle for 3-4-5 min's...then dies....then it wont start again for a while....then dies again....I'm thinking about doing the Accumulator AND fuel filter next and see how that goes....If that doesn't work then I will do the external fuel pump......

realcrouton

Posted Thursday, Mar 8th 9:20pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 111

Washington, USA
1977 320i, 1981 323i, 1991 325ic, 2000 328i

I had the exact same problem with my 320, it ended up being the in-tank fuel pump, (which my '77 wasn't supposed to have in the first place)so I replaced it with a Chevy Vega in-tank pump and the problem was solved. Have you tested the fuel pressure yet?

-Dave

jrcook320

Posted Thursday, Mar 8th 10:20pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Junior Member
Post nr. 1

Van Wert, OH
'81 320i

pjs323i wrote:

It just occured to me that if your cold start injector was leaking it would cause the motor to run rich, have fuel consumption issues and cause irratic idle. Replacing the injector would fix the leak and correct the problem.

You can check your accumulator for leaks by taking the vent hose off the back (the side with one hose attached), plugging the hose that's attached to the fuel tank feed, then energizing the pump. If fuel drips or sprays out of the port on the back of the accumulator you have a leak, if not it's fine. Usually if it's bad it will cause hard starts due to the system rest pressure dropping off too far.

The fact that the car starts and then dies after a few seconds suggests that the cold start injector is firing, then the car goes so lean after it stops spraying (about 8 seconds from the time you started cranking) that it stalls.

At this point you need to do a fuel system pressure test to see whats going on. Either your pump is weak, filter's clogged, your WUR is out of wack, or you mixture is misadjusted.

Or replace the filter and see what happens. If there's no improvement there you could try bumping up the mixture setting a tad and see if that helps.

Boost_me

Posted Friday, Mar 9th 3:38pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 132

Victoria, Australia
1981 BMW 323i

I'm going to replace he fuel filter, clean the fuse and relay terminal's and see how that goes, then if it still doesn't want to play I will look at the accumulator, I really dont think it's the exturnal fuel pump as I can hear it running when the car is running. But it doesn't prime before I start my car.....I thought they're supposed to??? If I get no good thing's come from that then I may think about taking it to a shop.......I dunno guy's, very hard nut to crack this one.....

Madhatter

Posted Friday, Mar 9th 4:08pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 134

Australia - QLD
E21, E24, E30

I have never really heard mine when i flick on the ignition switch, after it cranks if it doesnt fire you can hear the pump run on for a second then switch off, thats about it.

If there is something wrong with any of the delivery systems you will see it from pressure and flow tests. As already said, recent threads about checking these, it would be a good idea to have a read through them instead of just dismissing ideas.

jrcook320

Posted Friday, Mar 9th 5:53pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Junior Member
Post nr. 1

Van Wert, OH
'81 320i

I don't know the specifics of how the fuel pump circuit is wired on a 323i, but on a 320i the fuel pump *should* come on as soon as you turn on the ignition, run for a second or so and turn off when the relay doesn't receive ignition pulses from the coil.

Mine does exactly that, plus it cycles when I flick my brights. The headlight circuit must somehow be sending enough of a pulse to make the fuel relay think there's a pulse in the ignition circuit. The headlights somehow run through the ignition circuit (I'd have to study a wiring diagram to tell you where) so the headlights shut off when the ignition is off.

How loud is your fuel pump? If you can hear it inside or outside the car while the car is running that may be a red flag. An excessively loud pump may indicate that its on its last leg.

My reman pump that went bad was very loud to the point that it was annoying, replaced it with a good used pump and its near silent. The car would start and run fine, but at WOT above 4500 rpm it would start to stumble and miss because the fuel pressure would just drop off at the flow rate the fuel system was demanding.

pjs323i

Posted Saturday, Mar 10th 12:23am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 51

Canberra, Australia
'81 323i

Madhatter wrote:

I can hear mine if i listen carefully, and when the ignition is cut off i can hear it run for a second or 2 and then it switches off.

Boost_me

Posted Sunday, Mar 11th 2:13am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 134

Victoria, Australia
1981 BMW 323i

Yeah I can't hear mine either only when I'm lying on the ground sorta 1/2 a metre away from it.......It's NOT ecessivly loud, I can only just slightly hear it when i'm real close to it....I want to messure fuel pressure's but I can't as I don't have a FPT (fuel pressure tester). I rang around for prices.......in exess of AUD$400......Damn.....So I need to borrow one from someone.....(Anyone one to ship one to me......when I'm finnished I'll ship it back...hahaha) So the other option is a workshop.....I DONT want to do this as I am compitent that I can do 99% of the work myself. I am VERY mechaniclly minded....I just need the tool's.......I will seach for a PFT, until then this weird gremlin story has come to a screeching halt......

jrcook320

Posted Sunday, Mar 11th 4:50pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Junior Member
Post nr. 1

Van Wert, OH
'81 320i

You can buy one from JCwhitney for $50 USD.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2008126/c-10101/Nty-1/p-2008126/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10101/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=cis+pressure

I made my own pressure tester using a standard fuel gage bought from an autoparts store and a brass "T" fitting and a ball valve bought from a hardware store. I just cut and extra WUR supply line in half, then slid some standard rubber high pressure fuel line over the plastic line and clamped it. The gage is permanately installed on my car right now and it works fine, no leaks.

Boost_me

Posted Sunday, Mar 11th 10:44pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 136

Victoria, Australia
1981 BMW 323i

Hey that look's cool Does it work well?? The reason I want one FPT is to tap in my fuel line in 4 or 5 different location's to make sure stuff is working properly. Your's is only meassuring the K-Jet Fuel pressure.....Why don't you re-do the guage and mount it inside your car (maybe not since it's fuel pressure) or on your bonnet, somwhere visable at all times so you can check it at acceleration, high speed, coasting and cruzing?....In a crazy turn of event's I might go and put in 5 different F/P guage's to monitor F/P at all time's......Me think's it wold take up too much room though as I need space for other gauges....

jrcook320

Posted Monday, Mar 12th 3:40pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Junior Member
Post nr. 1

Van Wert, OH
'81 320i

You only need to measure fuel pressure at one location, in betweent the top port of the fuel distributor and the inlet of the WUR.

From there you can measure cold control pressure, warm control pressure, system pressure, and rest pressure. There's nothing else to measure on k-jet.

I could mount a gage that I could see in the car, but I was able to tune things in fine with it in the engine bay. I can indirectly monitor what the fuel system is doing through the air-fuel ratio gage.

Boost_me

Posted Thursday, Mar 15th 2:48pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 137

Victoria, Australia
1981 BMW 323i

I FIXED THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IGNITION MODULE!!!!!!!!! $400, about 10hr's labour and ALOT OF STRESS..........All gone.....Thank God for that hey.......

melloh

Posted Thursday, Mar 15th 9:12pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 510

California, USA (San Jose)
1980 320is, 1991 318is

Rally? Congrats! Now, take that rediculous ad off ebay, will you? Shame on you for even considering it....

pjs323i

Posted Friday, Mar 16th 11:44am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 51

Canberra, Australia
'81 323i

congrats dude! did you pay for the labour or DIY??? because that would have cost you a fortune!

Boost_me

Posted Friday, Mar 16th 4:38pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 138

Victoria, Australia
1981 BMW 323i

Thank-you and I did just then (taken off e-bay) Really though this little rocket had me in a pickle I had no idea, I re-placed everything, hence it was a MONTH on D.I.Y work, the car sat in my garage for a month while I tried different thing's........But now she's running again I do have a weird pulsating idle, and if I give it a quick rev when it SHOULD go back to idle it doesn't, it just dies or nearly die's and the revs bounce from 200rpm-1000rpm until it 'get's it's breath back' so to speak....I dunno how to smooth it out, I will check the timing, what else can be done??? This is really bad because if I am driving at 4000RPM in 3rd or 4th and put the clutch in to change down instead of idleing my engine will die, but it WILL start up straight away, this problem DOES NOT change with the Tempreture.......Thank-you to everyone for your help and support......Throw some idleing issue remedy's my way.....

pjs323i

Posted Saturday, Mar 17th 4:18am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 51

Canberra, Australia
'81 323i

yeah i have a 'loopy' idle as well, but it goes away once the engine is warm... i think i could do with some ideas on this one too

Madhatter

Posted Saturday, Mar 17th 10:28am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 138

Australia - QLD
E21, E24, E30

Boost_me wrote:

I FIXED THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IGNITION MODULE!!!!!!!!! $400, about 10hr's labour and ALOT OF STRESS..........All gone.....Thank God for that hey.......

Damn, ive got like 4 you could have had for $50

$400 all the labour? the repair manual has a guide for testing the im's operation for future reference.

Ive got the same idle but im running rich and have a vacuum leak, think the cold start valve isnt closing properly.

Boost_me

Posted Sunday, Mar 18th 4:57am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 139

Victoria, Australia
1981 BMW 323i

AWWW now that's just plain harsh.........Dammit, but it's all good now...I need to get a repair manual for this car, It's was pretty scary doing the WUR as I had NEVER pulled anything out of a BMW engine before.....But I learnt more in that process than I think I would have been able to with the manual....I want to extend this conversion of ideling issue's....
I car idel's pretty good, the problem is that when I give it a rev the engine doesn't stablise it bounces from JUST about to stall to a fine idel in about 10 second's, but it will bounce from 100rpm(guess) too 950rpm(also rough guess) about 3-4 times before it stablise's at about 850-900rpm......Why would this happen???? It's like when I take my foot off the accelerator after reving it a little it just want's to die......but doesn't.....Please idea's anyone??

Thank's
Matt

pjs323i

Posted Sunday, Mar 18th 5:31am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 51

Canberra, Australia
'81 323i

yep exactly the same issue here, i just increased the idle speed and it fixed the issue

Boost_me

Posted Sunday, Mar 18th 7:44am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 140

Victoria, Australia
1981 BMW 323i

How did you bring the idle up?? Where is it adjusted from?? Throttle Body?? I think this could be a problem but I dunno until I try it....

aussie323i

Posted Sunday, Mar 18th 2:34pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 562

australia
1979 323i

after reading through this thread, I was about to suggest the ignition module- glad you worked it out! I had similar issues and it turned out to be a bad earth on the ignition module- I'd be a little sceptical about the 10 hours labour you were charged though- my auto electrician found this problem in about an hour (after I'd been pulling my hair out for about a week!)

With the idle- you can adjust the idle with the big screw on the top of the throttle body. With the idle droping down real low when you back off, then stabilising, I'd be looking at the mixtures- if the car's running rich, it will have these kinds of issues. Because you've cleaned out your WUR, you may find that the mixtures need to be re-adjusted- you can do this with a long T-shaped 3mm allen key, although it is not something you want to fiddle with too much.

May be a good idea to get the garage to do it where they have the propper testing equipment to get the mixtures right.

Boost_me

Posted Monday, Mar 19th 2:37am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car]

Member
Post nr. 144

Victoria, Australia
1981 BMW 323i

Thank's bro, I didn't get charged for those 10hr's labour, the $400 is for the part's I brought, I did and probably will do the majority of the work myself.......I AM running rich I know that for a fact, but I will wait until my car fixing partner (Mum's B/F) come's around and get him to help me out a bit with the mixture's......He's very knowledgable and has worked on many different types of engine's......Thank's for the info dude....Like alway's you'll all know when I do.....

Matt