| MayanArch |
Posted
Saturday, Dec 8th 11:35pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1467
Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978 |
OK, took the car to have the fuel system checked. they found that the thermostat that senses engine temperature was bad. They replaced it.
They replaced the fuel filter just in case.
They said the pressures were OK everywhere else.
However, the problem is still there. The car needs a lot of cranks to get going in the morning....sometimes to the point of draining the battery. Sometimes, it will try to start and then give a very deep throttle sigh. Some other times it will turn over and over and over....but not start to idle. Sometimes you see a white puff of smoke coming from the driver's side of the engine.
What else could it be if it isnt the fuel system?
The car typically starts if I give it a jump if the battery was drained during the whole process.
Could my stereo be draining the battery enough where I am not getting a good spark?
I must have done 7 gas tank fulls adding Techron fuel system cleaner....so it must be clean by now.
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| aussie323i |
Posted
Sunday, Dec 9th 2:54am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 600
australia
1979 323i |
fuel accumulator maybe?
My L-Jet takes a while to fire up because the fuel rail doesn't hold pressure any more (the check valve leaks- enough to let the pressure drop when the car sits for a while)
This makes it take a bit longer than you would expect to start as the fuel pump has to build the pressure back up.
If the K-Jet fuel accumulator was stuffed, you'd get the same effect... the system pressure would drop, and it would take a while for the fuel pressure to build. If your battery isn't 100%, then it could cause the symptoms you describe.
I have a big battery, and an 80amp alternator in my car, so the battery always holds up until it starts, which is why I have been too lazy to fix my check valve! The 80amp alternator also recharges the battery pretty quickly if things get a bit flat.
Good Luck |
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| imaradiostar |
Posted
Sunday, Dec 9th 5:40pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1089
Nashville, TN
81 323i, 82 525i, 85 524td, 90 535i |
sounds like cold start injector problems. try sending 12v to the cold start injector and see if it starts. I had a customer with a 2002tii and he had the cold start injector connected to a pushbutton. He called it anti-theft protection because the car wouldn't start without it and you had to know it was there.
jamie |
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| MayanArch |
Posted
Sunday, Dec 9th 7:35pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1468
Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978 |
Cold start injector was checked, accumulator is not leaking....I am told all these points were checked, and I was there when he had the car up to change the fuel filter. The accumulator was dry...no leak. We talked about it.
One other thing he mentioned is carbon deposits soaking up the gas on a cold start.
I suspect a battery problem too. I am going to test starting it with a battery booster to see if the radio is draining the battery.
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| MayanArch |
Posted
Sunday, Dec 9th 7:45pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1469
Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978 |
| imaradiostar wrote: | sounds like cold start injector problems. try sending 12v to the cold start injector and see if it starts. I had a customer with a 2002tii and he had the cold start injector connected to a pushbutton. He called it anti-theft protection because the car wouldn't start without it and you had to know it was there.
jamie |
I have a mechanic that is pretty good with 2002s that suggested this. You test it by jumping the connection. I tested the theory by jumping the pump to start on ACC and leave it on for 8 seconds before crank. It didnt help. |
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| MayanArch |
Posted
Sunday, Dec 9th 10:04pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1470
Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978 |
OK, I am starting to think I had two problems....and therefore the confusion of trying to troubleshoot them.
Taking the mechanic at his word, and assuming he fixed all injection problems.....I tested the battery theory.
I went to start the car in the morning with one of those emergency battery jumpers and it started right away.
I take it my radio is draining the battery by being hooked up to a "continuous 12v".
If that is the case......then how do I keep the radio working with all the programming being stored......and not drain the battery????
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| jrcook320 |
Posted
Tuesday, Dec 11th 3:51pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Junior Member
Post nr. 1
Van Wert, OH
'81 320i |
If the car starts while being jumped but not on it's own power you could have several problems:
1) A weak battery, have it tested, most autoparts stores do it for free in the US.
2) bad/dirty grounds or battery cables not giving the ignition system enough juice when the start is cranking.
3) worn starter that draws too much amperage to allow the ignition system to work while cranking. |
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| MayanArch |
Posted
Thursday, Dec 13th 6:39pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1471
Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978 |
| jrcook320 wrote: | If the car starts while being jumped but not on it's own power you could have several problems:
1) A weak battery, have it tested, most autoparts stores do it for free in the US.
2) bad/dirty grounds or battery cables not giving the ignition system enough juice when the start is cranking.
3) worn starter that draws too much amperage to allow the ignition system to work while cranking. |
OK, went to SEARS. The guy checked the battery and the draw. Said they were both text book perfect.
Also, I disconnected the radio for one night and still had a problem the next morning.
Other than a radio.....which turns off with the ignition and only draws to maintain memory functions.....what else could be draining the battery in an E21? Lights are not left on.
Would dirty poles on the battery make it crank slow when cold, but crank fine when hot? |
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| melloh |
Posted
Friday, Dec 14th 4:43am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 623
California, USA (San Jose)
1980 320is, 1991 318is |
can you check how much power is reaching the starter? If it's getting power w/in range, then maybe a weak starter/solenoid? Also, have you cleaned the terminal connection to the starter/solenoid itself (just in case)? I've had wierd little electrical gremlins (e30) solved simply by cleaning the terminals to the battery - even though it looked clean on visual inspection. If not already done, clean all connections - at battery, grounds,etc (can't hurt, might cure other anomalies, and you'll need to do it eventually anyway). Was it baking soda in water thats supposed to be good at eating away the corrosion? (Uhm.. detatch terminals before and dry when done, of course.)
PS: Sears is AWSOME! |
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| MayanArch |
Posted
Friday, Dec 14th 6:10am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1472
Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978 |
| melloh wrote: | can you check how much power is reaching the starter? If it's getting power w/in range, then maybe a weak starter/solenoid? Also, have you cleaned the terminal connection to the starter/solenoid itself (just in case)? I've had wierd little electrical gremlins (e30) solved simply by cleaning the terminals to the battery - even though it looked clean on visual inspection. If not already done, clean all connections - at battery, grounds,etc (can't hurt, might cure other anomalies, and you'll need to do it eventually anyway). Was it baking soda in water thats supposed to be good at eating away the corrosion? (Uhm.. detatch terminals before and dry when done, of course.)
PS: Sears is AWSOME! |
Isnt that what Sears did? Check the battery, and then check draw at crank?
The entire problem is in cold starts. It is pretty damn reliable during the day. Would the selenoid be a cold start thing?
tried looking at the ground cables. They go below the intake filter box....and out of sight. Any easy way of checking them? |
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| aussie323i |
Posted
Saturday, Dec 15th 2:55am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 602
australia
1979 323i |
yeah- earths sound like your next port of call... I had non-start issues at one point, and it ended up being the earth wire on the ignition module. This was quite a hairy issue as it would come and go. The auto electrician ended up fixing it for me, so unfortunately I cant give you exact pin numbers on the ignition module, but he ran an extra earth from one of the pins in the ignition module to the strut.
Have you checked for spark when you crank it over cold? I normally do this by just sticking my timing light on it to avoid getting zapped.
Your radio should not drain your battery with the continuous 12v unless there is a short somewhere. |
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| MayanArch |
Posted
Saturday, Dec 15th 5:09pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1473
Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978 |
| aussie323i wrote: | yeah- earths sound like your next port of call... I had non-start issues at one point, and it ended up being the earth wire on the ignition module. This was quite a hairy issue as it would come and go. The auto electrician ended up fixing it for me, so unfortunately I cant give you exact pin numbers on the ignition module, but he ran an extra earth from one of the pins in the ignition module to the strut.
Have you checked for spark when you crank it over cold? I normally do this by just sticking my timing light on it to avoid getting zapped.
Your radio should not drain your battery with the continuous 12v unless there is a short somewhere. |
I know there is a problem with the ignition module at the steering column. I have turned the key off and the car kept running.
Would a short or a bad ground drain the battery?
The car starts with a battery booster in the mornings. What gets me is that it doesnt need it unless it stays sitting for 6 to 8 hours. |
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| M42powered |
Posted
Tuesday, Dec 18th 12:59am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Staff
Post nr. 747
Arizona, USA
1981 BMW 320i |
Sounds fishy. Did the Sears guy disconnect your battery?
Here's my theory. Cold terminals don't make good contact with the battery cables. When you put the jump box on the terminals it squeezes the terminals to make good contact with the battery. So the jump box isn't really giving you extra juice, it's just increasing the contact.
When the car is warm, so is the battery. The terminals have swollen and gotten tight inside the cable terminals.
Have you removed the cable terminals and inspected them... wiggled them? |
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| MayanArch |
Posted
Sunday, Dec 23rd 3:56pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1475
Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978 |
OK, so the mechanic says he has tested the pressures and they are ok. He has tested to see if there is a draw in the battery, and there isn't.
He says he believes corrosion on the WUR and thermostat are causing intermittent problems.
He has sprayed contact cleaner, and so have I, but the problem persists.
The car sometimes has a sputter response. |
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| MayanArch |
Posted
Monday, Dec 24th 4:56am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1476
Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978 |
| M42powered wrote: | Sounds fishy. Did the Sears guy disconnect your battery?
Here's my theory. Cold terminals don't make good contact with the battery cables. When you put the jump box on the terminals it squeezes the terminals to make good contact with the battery. So the jump box isn't really giving you extra juice, it's just increasing the contact.
When the car is warm, so is the battery. The terminals have swollen and gotten tight inside the cable terminals.
Have you removed the cable terminals and inspected them... wiggled them? |
I cleaned them with steel wool and contact cleaner....then tightened them. Nothing.
Would bad or dirty spark plugs create this? |
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| MayanArch |
Posted
Tuesday, Dec 25th 12:46am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1477
Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978 |
Help!!!!!!! |
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| imaradiostar |
Posted
Monday, Dec 31st 9:45am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1090
Nashville, TN
81 323i, 82 525i, 85 524td, 90 535i |
let's get back to the basics- spark and fuel. Is the fuel pump running? You should hear the pump run for a sec after you crank the engine. If this is the case then pop the hood and crack the banjo bolts that connect the warm up regulator...there should be a significant amount of residual pressure.
If the above two check out and you have spark then you need to look at control pressures yourself. I frankly don't trust most shops to do it correctly because hardly anyone works on these things any more, especially here in the US. Your mechanic could be right- you could have an intermittent problem inside the WUR.
Have you tried pulling out the cold start injector and seeing for yourself if it sprays or not? Have you tried supplying 12 volts to it directly and seeing if it makes the car start? Even if you have problems elsewhere this may allow you to get it running without draining down your battery.
jamie |
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| g323 |
Posted
Monday, Dec 31st 6:13pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 217
California
323i 1982 |
MayanArch, check out my post on starter switch colors.
often the switch goes bad, a leaves the starter on while your driving. draining the battery really bad.
i changed my switch out and problem solved. no more glowing alt light |
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| MayanArch |
Posted
Tuesday, Jan 1st 2:26am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1481
Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978 |
| imaradiostar wrote: | let's get back to the basics- spark and fuel. Is the fuel pump running? You should hear the pump run for a sec after you crank the engine. If this is the case then pop the hood and crack the banjo bolts that connect the warm up regulator...there should be a significant amount of residual pressure.
If the above two check out and you have spark then you need to look at control pressures yourself. I frankly don't trust most shops to do it correctly because hardly anyone works on these things any more, especially here in the US. Your mechanic could be right- you could have an intermittent problem inside the WUR.
Have you tried pulling out the cold start injector and seeing for yourself if it sprays or not? Have you tried supplying 12 volts to it directly and seeing if it makes the car start? Even if you have problems elsewhere this may allow you to get it running without draining down your battery.
jamie |
OK....do the For Dummies version of this...
How would I feed 12v to the cold start valve? Its that aqua green plug under the intake, right?
Should I unplug it and extend a copper cable from the POS of the battery to the the POS lead of that valve? Brown is NEG.
Should the key be on ACC or is this something I can do with the key off and no help from anyone else holding a cable while I crank the car? |
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| MayanArch |
Posted
Tuesday, Jan 1st 2:27am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1482
Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978 |
| g323 wrote: | MayanArch, check out my post on starter switch colors.
often the switch goes bad, a leaves the starter on while your driving. draining the battery really bad.
i changed my switch out and problem solved. no more glowing alt light |
The car doesnt have a problem during the day. It starts giving problems if it sits for 4 to 6 hours or more... |
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| aussie323i |
Posted
Tuesday, Jan 1st 8:16am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 604
australia
1979 323i |
hmmm... well - I'm with Jamie... work back to basics... when it doesn't start, do you definitely have spark? Do you definitely have fuel?
If it's a spark problem, I have had a number of these ranging from dead reluctor in the dizzy (they can give intermittent problems before they totally give out) to the earthing problems I have already mentioned... to something as simple as a coil getting a bit old and clapped out!!
You appear to have already checked the fuel system pretty thoroughly, but it does sound like it could be a cold start injector problem- yes the blue or aqua plug under the inlet is the one you're after.
Another way to see if it's a cold start valve issue is to take off a vacuum line on the inlet and squirt some aero-start or similar into the manifold as you turn it over... if it fires then you know you aren't getting enough fuel.
Good Luck |
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| MayanArch |
Posted
Wednesday, Jan 2nd 11:44pm [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1483
Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978 |
I am being told that the distributor is sticking....that there is a bottom pin that is sticking intermitently.
Can Bosch distributors be rebuilt? By whom?
What is a good source for these? |
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| MayanArch |
Posted
Thursday, Jan 3rd 12:43am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1485
Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978 |
Can someone confirm the Porsche fuel distributor that is a straight swap for a 323i distributor?
I am being told it is the 0438 100 031 Porsche part that can substitute the 0438 100 028 BMW distributor.
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| MayanArch |
Posted
Tuesday, Jan 8th 12:45am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1486
Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978 |
The plunger pin on the bottom of the distributor was stuck because of dirt and buildup. It has been cleaned out and the car feels stronger and starts easily. Lets see if it lasts more than a day. |
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| MayanArch |
Posted
Monday, Jan 14th 12:03am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 1489
Florida, USA
Baur E21 2.7 1982, Baur E30 318i 1985, 323i 1978 |
What are the steps to removing the fuel distributor? |
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| aussie323i |
Posted
Monday, Jan 14th 9:05am [Edit] [Quote] [IMS] [View car] |
Member
Post nr. 606
australia
1979 323i |
Ah - this is a well known problem - although I haven't noticed anyone on the board run into it for a while!
When it happened to mine, I fixed it by removing the rod and giving it a good clean just as you have done.
The rebuilt items are notoriously expensive unfortunately - although MadHatter used to do them many moons ago. Not sure if you can still get the rebuild kits for them.
I ended up getting frustrated with the whole setup and going over to the L-Jet (as everyone already knows  )
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